RMR on your carry gun
- Thread starter ThePlumber
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ThePlumber
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Yep. Since the original on the NightFighter, I've purchased and mounted 3 more.
azpoolguy
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Mike Moser
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I havent even tried one yet cause Ive been trained with irons for so long.
Dots are fun....BUUUUUUT...it depends on the person, the reason for the dot, and how much they are willing to PRACTICE. It all comes down to LOTS and LOTS of PRACTICE.
I built a .40 Open top for my G35, with a dot (pic below). Runs great...and I like the Dot...very quick to pick up and it's accurate....HOWEVER...it took ALOT of practice with it to get comfortable with it (especially running at speed on steel).
I don't run one now...1) My eyes are still pretty good (at almost 52)...2) My duty gun has night sights, so I run the same on all my guns for consistency....3) I've found that I'm just as fast with my fiber optic sight on my competition STI and night sights as with the dot....4) Running a dot had me indexing the gun differently, which messed me up a bit with my duty gun.
Dot's have a place. I've seen guys run them in USPSA, but without alot of practice they are just waving the gun around looking for the dot! LOL.....with iron sights I feel you can get them re-aligned quicker. You need to really practice with it because: 1) The gun indexes a bit differently, especially with a slide mounted optic that isn't melted in....and 2) The dot will jump and you'll have to find it in the window again.....
I agree with others....battery life not an issue...I run red dots on my M4's at work and those things last a long time with regular batteries...LOL. I just stand by what I said above....indexing the gun is different....finding the dot is different.
When my eyes really start going....I plan on the Dot route...LOL
I built a .40 Open top for my G35, with a dot (pic below). Runs great...and I like the Dot...very quick to pick up and it's accurate....HOWEVER...it took ALOT of practice with it to get comfortable with it (especially running at speed on steel).
I don't run one now...1) My eyes are still pretty good (at almost 52)...2) My duty gun has night sights, so I run the same on all my guns for consistency....3) I've found that I'm just as fast with my fiber optic sight on my competition STI and night sights as with the dot....4) Running a dot had me indexing the gun differently, which messed me up a bit with my duty gun.
Dot's have a place. I've seen guys run them in USPSA, but without alot of practice they are just waving the gun around looking for the dot! LOL.....with iron sights I feel you can get them re-aligned quicker. You need to really practice with it because: 1) The gun indexes a bit differently, especially with a slide mounted optic that isn't melted in....and 2) The dot will jump and you'll have to find it in the window again.....
I agree with others....battery life not an issue...I run red dots on my M4's at work and those things last a long time with regular batteries...LOL. I just stand by what I said above....indexing the gun is different....finding the dot is different.
When my eyes really start going....I plan on the Dot route...LOL
Tactical Rico
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Zipper046:
I'm going to give some examples and they may or may not help or even make sense to you,...but here goes.
Changing guns (and grips) is very detrimental to using a Red Dot. Here's how I got to really appreciate Red Dot Sights.
First I believe you NEED to have back up irons (at least in the beginning) that co-witness to your Red Dot.
You need to find your Natural Point of Aim that allows the irons to line up naturally, then adjust your grip accordingly. Without a grip that allow a NPA upon every presentation you will always be "looking for the Dot".........In other words you grip and presentation needs to be the same every time. This will allow a "Natural" alignment of you irons and will put the Dot in the glass every time.
If you can maintain that grip and presentation then the irons seem to disappear and you won't really see/need them any longer.
The above is why I believe changing guns (at least ones with different grips) is why most folks have problems adjusting to Red Dots. Same gun....Same grip...NPA...instant Red Dot. JMHO.
TR
I'm going to give some examples and they may or may not help or even make sense to you,...but here goes.
Changing guns (and grips) is very detrimental to using a Red Dot. Here's how I got to really appreciate Red Dot Sights.
First I believe you NEED to have back up irons (at least in the beginning) that co-witness to your Red Dot.
You need to find your Natural Point of Aim that allows the irons to line up naturally, then adjust your grip accordingly. Without a grip that allow a NPA upon every presentation you will always be "looking for the Dot".........In other words you grip and presentation needs to be the same every time. This will allow a "Natural" alignment of you irons and will put the Dot in the glass every time.
If you can maintain that grip and presentation then the irons seem to disappear and you won't really see/need them any longer.
The above is why I believe changing guns (at least ones with different grips) is why most folks have problems adjusting to Red Dots. Same gun....Same grip...NPA...instant Red Dot. JMHO.
TR
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If someone can see the front sight on their CCW, they are good to go; no RMR needed.
azpoolguy
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????
I can't bring myself to put a rmr on a carry pistol. An rmr may help with my bad eyes, but I just can't put one on a carry gun. They make the gun look top heavy, unnatural. I've trained with nothing but iron sights on pistols for so long that I'm not interested in trying to change my technique. Just personal preference I guess.
Rifles, or PCC's are a different matter. I have a couple with red dots on them. They work great.
Rifles, or PCC's are a different matter. I have a couple with red dots on them. They work great.
This will be a generational thing.
Those that learned on sight alignment and front site focus usually have a very difficult time switching to target threat focus. See target, put red dot on it, press.
I see it all the time in the defensive carry classes I take regularly. The young guns with 1/3 the gamer, club, and target time of old folks like me turn into fantastic shooters in very little time using the dot-target method after sighting in. Note this isn't 50' slow fire.
sure, if an EMP goes off they'll be sorry if they didn't learn the three point iron sights method.
Time and technology march on while we fade away to dust.
Those that learned on sight alignment and front site focus usually have a very difficult time switching to target threat focus. See target, put red dot on it, press.
I see it all the time in the defensive carry classes I take regularly. The young guns with 1/3 the gamer, club, and target time of old folks like me turn into fantastic shooters in very little time using the dot-target method after sighting in. Note this isn't 50' slow fire.
sure, if an EMP goes off they'll be sorry if they didn't learn the three point iron sights method.
Time and technology march on while we fade away to dust.
tomrkba
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It took me about....eight...maybe 10...rounds to get used to it on my G19.
Then again, I know point shooting really well and had BUIS to refer to. It was just a matter of switching from the sights to the dot at some point in that string. Take Roger Phillips' "Point Shooting Progressions". It really helps.
Then again, I know point shooting really well and had BUIS to refer to. It was just a matter of switching from the sights to the dot at some point in that string. Take Roger Phillips' "Point Shooting Progressions". It really helps.
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RickOShay
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I'm about ready to try an RMR, and I think the manufacturers are producing more and more pistols with mounting as a consideration. I would like to see Glock, for example, come out with a compact (say a model 23) with cut outs for the mount, and elevated sights for the co-witness. I'm all about getting rounds on target the fastest way possible. I just need a nudge to make the change. That said, I also believe in front sight focus, but there are limits, like 15yards is the max in a high strees shooting scenario. With practice, I do believe the red dot has potential.
ThePlumber
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I just zeroed these 5 yesterday, after changing the batteries. I agree that it takes a bit of time to acclimate to a RDS. I don't agree that it is generational, though. I shot iron sights for 30 years, and now love shooting and carrying guns with RDSs attached. It might have taken longer to adjust due to my generation/age (54 yo). It took a few thousand rounds for me to be comfortable with dot acquisition on presentation. Now I don't even think about it. At less than 50 feet I usually focus on the target, settle the dot and press the trigger. Greater than 50 feet I find it easier and more accurate to focus on the dot
I have an STI DVC C that I would like to get modified to accept a Red Dot. Who is a good source to do the modifications? I have a Trijican RMR on my ZEV and love it. It came with a cut out for mounting the red dot, so no problem mounting it. The 1911 is a different animal. Thanks for your feedback.
On my carry gun NO way just something to possibly malfunction I do not want to contend with, had a friend that had one and in the heat of the moment of being attacked by rattle snakes just point shot at them as he never found the dot he said, so for me just stick with night sights. Plus no way I would get my G2 32 Glock cut for one.
Per request on friend and snakes he was building a deer blind and leveling an area to place rocks for his feet and accidently broke into their den, said it was more scary than anything he had ever done before he had a Canik TPS9SFX I think it is with 20 rounds loaded.. After all was over he found the sight working fine, he was the malfunction there, myself I just do not wish anything else to contend with.
Per request on friend and snakes he was building a deer blind and leveling an area to place rocks for his feet and accidently broke into their den, said it was more scary than anything he had ever done before he had a Canik TPS9SFX I think it is with 20 rounds loaded.. After all was over he found the sight working fine, he was the malfunction there, myself I just do not wish anything else to contend with.
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So your friend didn't use his sights either? He used point shooting. Don't need any aiming device aid for that. "never found the dot" is a training issue.
After learning how I have never lost the dot, but I haven't been attacked by rattlesnakes yet!
If you are open to new ideas here are the results of a four year study on the efficacy and efficiency of red dot sights on pistols.
After learning how I have never lost the dot, but I haven't been attacked by rattlesnakes yet!
If you are open to new ideas here are the results of a four year study on the efficacy and efficiency of red dot sights on pistols.
- Executive summary: Results of a 4 Year Handgun Red Dot Study by Sage Dynamics
- Full study: Miniaturized Red Dot Systems for Duty Handgun Use
