Pistol Caliber Carbine provisional rules

irons_shooter · Apr 27, 2016

Tech said:
I thought PCC was dumb at first, but you have my attention now. I would need a 9mm lower, barrel, and bolt carrier to build my own, correct? Is the normal upper the same?

Yes, but at that point, why not get a dedicated carbine? The trigger is different (hammer anyway) and the results have been mixed on folks building their own. There are a bunch of manufacturers making them for the $1500 price point and lower, ready to go..

Tech · Apr 27, 2016

mike_pinto said:
Yes, but at that point, why not get a dedicated carbine? The trigger is different (hammer anyway) and the results have been mixed on folks building their own. There are a bunch of manufacturers making them for the $1500 price point and lower, ready to go..

I like the hi-point carbine price point!

irons_shooter · Apr 27, 2016

yes, but its a high point carbine..

mike cyrwus · Apr 27, 2016

Wall said:
Who calls them classes?

Class is U, D, C, B, A, M & GM

PPC you comp noob

mike cyrwus · Apr 27, 2016

mike_pinto said:
The rule clearly states muzzle vertical, with chamber flag inserted. Never does it mention up or down. It can be either..

awesome! this was kinda thought through!!

Wall · Apr 27, 2016

mike cyrwus said:
PPC you comp noob

Got it, it was late & I didn't catch that 2nd "P".

mike cyrwus · Apr 27, 2016

muzzle points downrange, safety on and fingers outside trigger guard in all start positions

Mr. Pinto,

is this going to be a default position for every start position in uspsa? will the MD need to put a few X's to designate where they start, in relation to the pistol divisions? as as an example, if theres a seated start, or lying in bed start?

or, can the match modify the above to specify, low ready, or "holding in weak hand, muzzle poingting at a orange cone, or something?

what if a match says yeah, "we'll allow that division to play", but there an ambiguous PCC start position, and starts are not consistent across squads/competitors.

and if the above quote is all that is used for a start position, we can start aimed in on a target, yes?

Wall said:
Got it, it was late & I didn't catch that 2nd "P".

You usually enjoy catching P.

Wall · Apr 27, 2016

What about a stage like El Prez or a stage where the course description states facing up range, hands on head, wrists above shoulders, etc?

Wall · Apr 27, 2016

mike cyrwus said:
muzzle points downrange, safety on and fingers outside trigger guard in all start positions

Mr. Pinto,

is this going to be a default position for every start position in uspsa? will the MD need to put a few X's to designate where they start, in relation to the pistol divisions? as as an example, if theres a seated start, or lying in bed start?

or, can the match modify the above to specify, low ready, or "holding in weak hand, muzzle poingting at a orange cone, or something?

what if a match says yeah, "we'll allow that division to play", but there an ambiguous PCC start position, and starts are not consistent across squads/competitors.

and if the above quote is all that is used for a start position, we can start aimed in on a target, yes?

I think downrange means the default start position, square to the berm unless otherwise specified.

irons_shooter · Apr 27, 2016

I think those are guidelines, as in every scenario you listed the assumption is that the muzzle is pointing downrange, the safety is on and your booger hook is not on the bang switch. Low ready is pointing downrange, safety on and finger not on trigger. As long as the aforementioned orange cone is downrange, that scenario is good to go. As far as the starts not being consistent, it really doesn't matter as there is no HOA in USPSA... So it makes no difference if the PCC folks have to start doing a headstand 25 yards away from the shooting area, as long as the muzzle is facing downrange, the safety is on, and the finger is not on the trigger..

Tony, PCC will be official July 1st, and I have to believe that by then, the classifiers will have PCC verbiage. As for now, clubs are to provide a table that is downrange of the start position for the PCC folks for these types of stages. You and I both know WE can face uprange and turn into a target presentation without breaking the 180, but dang that will scare the pants off the "I don't like PCC" folks

Wall · Apr 27, 2016

Pinto, I think was Mike was getting at was inconsistent PCC starts from squad to squad, not inconsistent with pistol starts.

Matt1911 · Apr 27, 2016

I just want supressors to be legal on an SBR running 115 or 124 grain bullets.
It's louder than a 16" gun running 147's

Wall · Apr 27, 2016

Matt Rigsby said:
I just want supressors to be legal on an SBR running 115 or 124 grain bullets.
It's louder than a 16" gun running 147's

What do you gain from running your suppressor?

I have a shorty upper for suppressors & a 16" for without. I'm not seeing any reason why I'd want to use my suppressors, but maybe I'm missing something.

mike cyrwus · Apr 27, 2016

Wall said:
Pinto, I think was Mike was getting at was inconsistent PCC starts from squad to squad, not inconsistent with pistol starts.

right. like say I just go shoot a match and a stage description says, start position loaded holstered, both hands on the port.
If there are no PCC descriptions, does that mean I can start at the port, sighted in at something thru the port, safety on, finger off trigger?

swear Im not trolling, Im just working thru possibilities as I see them, as this division is new

Matt1911 · Apr 27, 2016

My barrel is 7" my hand guard is 13"
I really don't want to build another Upper, I'd like to run what I have and buy more reloading components instead

Wall · Apr 27, 2016

My barrel is 7" my hand guard is 13"
I really don't want to build another Upper, I'd like to run what I have and buy more reloading components instead

I get that, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't overlooking something

mike cyrwus · Apr 27, 2016

Matt Rigsby said:
My barrel is 7" my hand guard is 13"
I really don't want to build another Upper, I'd like to run what I have and buy more reloading components instead

youll be fine, run a flaming pig comp

Matt1911 · Apr 27, 2016

mike cyrwus said:
youll be fine, run a flaming pig comp

Then I'd have to take off the muzzle device that holds my suppressor, which would then make my suppressor a paperweight for the tax stamp.

LuckyDucky · Apr 27, 2016

Matt Rigsby said:
Then I'd have to take off the muzzle device that holds my suppressor, which would then make my suppressor a paperweight for the tax stamp.

Just buy another gun.

irons_shooter · Apr 27, 2016

mike cyrwus said:
right. like say I just go shoot a match and a stage description says, start position loaded holstered, both hands on the port.
If there are no PCC descriptions, does that mean I can start at the port, sighted in at something thru the port, safety on, finger off trigger?

swear Im not trolling, Im just working thru possibilities as I see them, as this division is new

But there will be start positions for PC. What makes you think there wouldn't?
If the stage description is heels on xx's loaded and holstered for pistol, than the default for PCC would be facing downrange, safety on and finger off trigger. Any MD worth a damn is going to include PCC ready positions should there be a question with the pistol start position. If it isn't dictated, the only requirements is the aforementioned downrange, safety, trigger. Low ready, port arms, mounted at the first target.... It doesn't matter if the MD doesn't specify. I would bet that by July 1st there will be something that dictates the default starting position.