Pistol Caliber Carbine in USPSA?

Wall

El Diablo
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I don't like the idea of people shooting 2 divisions & I'm not sure it's allowed per the rules but I haven't looked it up.
I love the idea of shooting my PCC but hate the idea of not shooting my pistol.

I like Jesse's idea of leaving the match set up an extra day to run carbines & then he puts it all away himself.
 

Wall

El Diablo
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Glock%20M1%20large.jpg
Spencer, why do you always do this to yourself?
 

The Antichrome

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Not as gay as carry optics, but still gay.

We had a couple of gaybine shooters at last weeks RDS match. They started all stages at port arms/downrange (which has already been unofficially decided as the default start position for pcc)
Both shot SBR's. They both were agonizingly slow to reload.

No real logistical issues.
It looks like the speed to accuracy equation will be very different than pistol. Alphas are pretty much a given. Dropping a couple of C's or taking an extra shot on steel...you've blown it.
If a pcc has a killer run, the crazy high HHF could do weird things to the unofficial (but oh so scrutinized) overall results.

Negatives?
If you think our sport has a bad image now, wait till the public (and range fudds) see tacticool types walking around with their carbines (the fudds have already commented that the guns should only be unbagged at the line) Meh, I guess 3gun has overcome this, but its an issue.
The real problem is that its really going to need several Divisions to cover the gamut.
Irons/Optics/SBR/Comps/Mag capacity/etc.
There will always be 'that guy' who doesn't get that the score is recorded by a sound sensing timer and why is his silencer an issue...
SBR's will be required to be truly competitive...this is whole can of worms.

Do I want a pcc? Yes.
Am I going to shoot it Instead of pistol? No. But I'd shoot it in a separate match.

But face it, Kommandant Foley has already decided that this will be a thing. It's his fixation, much like Hyland's 'production optic' hard-on.
He doesn't just advocate for it, he's putting out youtube vids with instruction on how we are going to do it when we do it, and we are going to do it because he said so.

I just hope that match directors put the pcc ( and c/o ) shooters in their own squads.
Some of us just want to shoot pistols and be rewarded for speed, power, and accuracy.
 

irons_shooter

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Why wouldn't you still be rewarded for speed and accuracy?

I sure hope the next version of PS doesn't even give an option for combined results. That would fix so many discussions. :)
 

irons_shooter

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Wall said:
Robert hates everything
Haha. I understand most of his stance except the squadding thing. It's a brand new division and there will be varying skillsets. It will take time for a lot of folks to get proficient, but when they do, I can see 12+ HF being the norm.
I don't think he hates everything (most of the time) and it's good to have folks speak their mind. We all have opinions and without hearing them all, our sport would be way worse off. There are places that CO is super popular and other places that have 20% of the field shooting L10. We don't really have that here so we think it's kinda silly to keep em around.
 

Wall

El Diablo
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Next match, I'm shooting PCC & CO just to piss off Robert....lol
 

The Antichrome

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I said Speed, Accuracy, and Power.

The USPSA is actively trying to eliminate Power from the scoring equation.
3 of the last 4 Divisions enacted, provisioned, or proposed have been Minor only. No reward for superior Power.
USPSA already eliminated power factor from Multi Gun.
Max is advocating going to time plus scoring.

One of the biggest objections that the C/O proponents had to just shooting Open where they belong was that they didn't want to shoot against people with Major Power Factor.

On the other hand, if they just eliminated the power factor requirement for Open, we could have avoided having the C/O debacle altogether.
 

dennishoddy

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dennishoddy said:
our forward falling steel will go down with a .22.
Loved it when one was left standing at the last match and a calibration was called. :D
Maybe USPSA needs to look at our new design for poppers. Very innovative.
 

slemmo

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I haven't watched the video, so maybe I should before posting, but I can't understand why an accomplished shooter want to ditch HF scoring in favour of time plus. Time plus is completely dumbing down the entire scoring system. Planning a stage based on your expected hf and shooting accordingly is half the fun for me and is what makes IPSC/USPSA stand out from other shooting sports.
 

Wall

El Diablo
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Maybe USPSA needs to look at our new design for poppers. Very innovative.
USPSA doesn't spec the falling mechanism, only the target shape.
 

Wall

El Diablo
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Well, they specify the paper targets.....maybe its time to think about steel. Just a thought.
they do spec the shape of the steel, just not the frame or falling mechanism, just like they don't spec what you use for paper target stands.
 
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mike_pinto said:
It's not my steel. If you want to I guess there is no rule stopping you from destroying someone's range equipment, although it might not get you a request to come again. There is no current upper limit on pistol ammunition today, so I don't foresee one in PCC as a 16" barrel will only increase velocity by ~200fps over a 5" barrel.
200fps aint a baby sneeze, just saying
 

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