I know Im throwing rocks at a hornets nest here, but Im curious what the problem is with people prefering a "tactical" look or setup vs the all gaming ideology. I hear a lot of the better gamers talk about "tactical timmy" and such but I think thats just as rediculous as someone calling your sport a circle jerk jersey convention or sellout. Im love to shoot at competition, and while Im no where near the fastest, I still know that if it came down to a fight, I feel confident in my ability to defend myself. Im just saying that if someones focus is the practical application of firearm skills into a self defense or tactical role, thats no more or less valid than a guy with 5 caddies and a shotgun with a 14 foot tube. Its all about what you like.
Tactical vs Competition
- Thread starter McGuire
- Start date
joshappel
Par times back to normal
Every see some one show up to intro to marksmanship class, or concealed carry wearing a decked out plate carrier with every pouch filled with mags?
That is Timmy......
There's not a problem with it. If that's what a person prefers, then go for it.
It's just been proven time and again that the tactical set up isn't efficient for this application.
So when a person shows up to a USPSA or 3Gun match in tactical gear they are more than a little out of place.
Then again, you wouldn't show up in the middle of a hostile situation in a bright colored jersey with logos splashed all over it either.
Matt1911
Cyrwus Jr.
I used to shoot 3-gun with a very basic 16" carbine AR15 and a Mossberg pump shotgun.
Most people out there are more than happy with someone coming out and shooting whatever they have because they want the sport to grow and enjoy seeing more participation.
Don't let a couple assholes with inferiority complexes ruin your good time of coming out competing just because your equipment isn't as sporty as theirs.
Shoot what you brought and have a good time.
And the guys making fun of the "tactical timmys"... there's a name for them. They're called douchebags. The shooting community for the most part are great people, but there's always a rotten apple or two in the bunch. Don't worry about em.
Most people out there are more than happy with someone coming out and shooting whatever they have because they want the sport to grow and enjoy seeing more participation.
Don't let a couple assholes with inferiority complexes ruin your good time of coming out competing just because your equipment isn't as sporty as theirs.
Shoot what you brought and have a good time.
And the guys making fun of the "tactical timmys"... there's a name for them. They're called douchebags. The shooting community for the most part are great people, but there's always a rotten apple or two in the bunch. Don't worry about em.
KurtM
Well-Known Fanatic
Well the reader's digest version is that the tacticle crowd makes fun of gammers because they wear funny shirts and gear that is not practicle in the everyday combat setting ( more on that in a moment) and they "train" to do things that will get a person killed, like reloading in plane veiw of targets, not seeking cover, etc. The tacticle guys train a lot more on moving to cover, retaining magazines, etc,and are not particularly concerned with speed of shooting as this equates to poor shooting in their experience
Gammers laugh at Tacticle guys because they tend to hang all sorts of stuff off their rifles, carry 3 flash-lights have plate carriers and "combat vests" that they wear to matches, while the gammers know all that stuff gets in the way of fast accurate shooting, and gammers tend to shoot boat loads more and are therefore much more skilled at weapons manipulation under stress, and can hit stuff very accurately and fast.
The two different groups tend to dismiss the experience of the other due to missguided beliefs about what the other group thinks and does. It is very hard to be taken seriously by either camp if you already have a "name" in one of those camps. For instance a well now "gammer" here does lots of training for Military and L.E. to include 5th group S.F. and L.A. SWAT and yet here he is a gammer, period! Not many folks have made the cross over, with Bennie Cooley being about the only one I know of that is accepted by both groups.
Gear that isn't practicle in "everyday combat settings". Red dot sights fell into this catagory untill around 2000. A gun with more than one optic fell into this catagory untill 2005. Free foat handguards were impractivle untill 2009. I have seen Marines with Shell caddies that use them while deployed. recently I have seen Glocks with a Trijicon Dot sight on top of them being tested by S.F. and Delta. Gammers drive developement while being made fun of by the very guys who will latter embrace the changes driven by competition and then say things like well it has to be good because the army adapted it.
Anway that is the way I see it from both sides Kurt
Gammers laugh at Tacticle guys because they tend to hang all sorts of stuff off their rifles, carry 3 flash-lights have plate carriers and "combat vests" that they wear to matches, while the gammers know all that stuff gets in the way of fast accurate shooting, and gammers tend to shoot boat loads more and are therefore much more skilled at weapons manipulation under stress, and can hit stuff very accurately and fast.
The two different groups tend to dismiss the experience of the other due to missguided beliefs about what the other group thinks and does. It is very hard to be taken seriously by either camp if you already have a "name" in one of those camps. For instance a well now "gammer" here does lots of training for Military and L.E. to include 5th group S.F. and L.A. SWAT and yet here he is a gammer, period! Not many folks have made the cross over, with Bennie Cooley being about the only one I know of that is accepted by both groups.
Gear that isn't practicle in "everyday combat settings". Red dot sights fell into this catagory untill around 2000. A gun with more than one optic fell into this catagory untill 2005. Free foat handguards were impractivle untill 2009. I have seen Marines with Shell caddies that use them while deployed. recently I have seen Glocks with a Trijicon Dot sight on top of them being tested by S.F. and Delta. Gammers drive developement while being made fun of by the very guys who will latter embrace the changes driven by competition and then say things like well it has to be good because the army adapted it.
Anway that is the way I see it from both sides Kurt
benjamin-benjamin
snickerpuss
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2010
- Messages
- 2,907
people bond over commonalities, too often people bond over the bashing of others, we see it all the time, bashing kardishan's, bashing obama, bashing another sports team, shoot go to any playground and kids are bashing some other kid. It is the desire to be part of a group, accepted into a "special circle". Even hating Jesus was the first time the pharisees and Sadducees got together and agreed on something!! i am not justifying this behavior at all, in fact if anything i am condemning it. But that is why you see what you see, people wanting to be accepted, and too often instead of focusing on the good things we put down others to help the "exclusivity" of our group or how great our group is compared to others.
its funny you mention this because i have been trying to not do this and it is amazing when you really start to notice it, because it is everywhere!!!! everywhere i go there are people bonding over the "bashing" of others!
its funny you mention this because i have been trying to not do this and it is amazing when you really start to notice it, because it is everywhere!!!! everywhere i go there are people bonding over the "bashing" of others!
Wormydog1724
ATAS Ninja
I'm not a part of either category I don't think, I like to believe I am somewhere in the middle yet I still get made fun of by both sides. I just let my (bad) shooting do the talking! Muhahahaha. Kidding....
But seriously,
Can't we all just get along?
But seriously,
Can't we all just get along?
I dont bash either Gamers or Tactical guys. I live in both worlds.
The guys that make me roll my eyes are the guys that are waaaay over the top trying to be Tactical. That is the guy I call Timmy.
It's like "Dude, relax. Quit trying so hard".
The guys that make me roll my eyes are the guys that are waaaay over the top trying to be Tactical. That is the guy I call Timmy.
It's like "Dude, relax. Quit trying so hard".
Burk Cornelius
Regular guy
This type of "vs" happens in any sport that has its beginning (roots) in a task that has a practical applications.
I'm a team roper and the "rodeo" cowboys are like the gamers and the "ranch" cowboys are the guys that poke fun at us because we couldn't rope and tie down a 1200lb cow to doctor her if our life depended on it. BUT we can rope a steer from a standing start in under 8 seconds.
Take a look at some of the pictures in the "History of 3 Gun" threads. Those guys weren't gamers, they were cops and general bad asses that wanted to see who could shoot the best/fastest.
Benjamin makes a good point. Join together with your similarities NOT your differences
I'm a team roper and the "rodeo" cowboys are like the gamers and the "ranch" cowboys are the guys that poke fun at us because we couldn't rope and tie down a 1200lb cow to doctor her if our life depended on it. BUT we can rope a steer from a standing start in under 8 seconds.
Take a look at some of the pictures in the "History of 3 Gun" threads. Those guys weren't gamers, they were cops and general bad asses that wanted to see who could shoot the best/fastest.
Benjamin makes a good point. Join together with your similarities NOT your differences
I don't have a problem with the "tactical crowd."
I have a problem with ignorant people who think they know everything, look down on others, and aren't willing to learn. And a higher percentage of those people are wearing nylon drop leg holsters.
I have a problem with ignorant people who think they know everything, look down on others, and aren't willing to learn. And a higher percentage of those people are wearing nylon drop leg holsters.
benjamin-benjamin
snickerpuss
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2010
- Messages
- 2,907
well to be fair i have made fun of chambers and Jeremy, but it is because of how fat i feel compared to their fit waist sizes!!!
Wormydog1724
ATAS Ninja
My first 3 gun I wore a drop leg holster.
And you bear the title of ATAS Ninja.
Wormydog1724
ATAS Ninja
And I hope I represent it to the T.
Hence my failed attempt at 3 gun with a suppressor and an ACR.
Mitch Rapp
Well-Known Fanatic
I think it depends on what you want to get out of the match as well. Or, what the goal is, I mean. I started shooting matches not long after I started carrying. I started because I wanted to be as competent as possible with my weapon. Because of this, I wasn't out buying competition holsters, or other fancy things. I didn't make fun of the guys with speed rigs or stuff, because thats what they are there for, to get better at competing. To be honest, like Kurt said can happen, I learned some things from the gamers to apply in carrying, and being up against gamers made me push my self to be faster and better just because of my own competitive nature.
In the matches I have shot with my AR you see the same things, but magnified to a whole new scale. My AR is my house gun. It has a light on it, and at times has had other stupid stuff on it, that I later decided was not needed. My gear was what was cheap, and available locally. I had a thigh rig to carry my spare mags in, and a kydex single mag pouch on my belt. ATAS? yeah I got called that when I posted a vid, but I didn't care because it served my purpose. I have one AR, and can't afford a second to set up just for matches.
So it comes down more to your own ideas than it does those of the people around you. I had one guy make fun of my stuff when I was at a match, he is an instructor at USSA and I hope has changed his attitude. He had more money in his AR than I have in all my guns combined. Oh well, I kicked his but so lots of good it did him.
I shoot for fun, I shoot matches for fun, and to learn from people who do it more often than me. There are some jerks around, but for the most part the people who I have shot with are great.
In the matches I have shot with my AR you see the same things, but magnified to a whole new scale. My AR is my house gun. It has a light on it, and at times has had other stupid stuff on it, that I later decided was not needed. My gear was what was cheap, and available locally. I had a thigh rig to carry my spare mags in, and a kydex single mag pouch on my belt. ATAS? yeah I got called that when I posted a vid, but I didn't care because it served my purpose. I have one AR, and can't afford a second to set up just for matches.
So it comes down more to your own ideas than it does those of the people around you. I had one guy make fun of my stuff when I was at a match, he is an instructor at USSA and I hope has changed his attitude. He had more money in his AR than I have in all my guns combined. Oh well, I kicked his but so lots of good it did him.
I shoot for fun, I shoot matches for fun, and to learn from people who do it more often than me. There are some jerks around, but for the most part the people who I have shot with are great.
I'm with Troy on this one. I've been in the tactical world for the last 6 years due to my profession. I'm moving into the gamer world while still in the tactical world. I believe by living in both worlds I will become a better shooter. This will then help me become a firearms instructor for my agency and help me become a member of our shooting team and kick the crap out of other agencies at competitions.
P.S.
What does "ATAS" mean? I'm new.
P.S.
What does "ATAS" mean? I'm new.
