Competition as I Carry...

[Burk Cornelius]

I don't think any kind of shooting is bad. Some do it to be faster than the other guy, that is good.

Some do it to practice with their carry gear, that is good.

Afro guy says ALL IS GOOD!

 

[jtischauser]

Occasionally folks will make fun of you when you run a weaponlight on your 3-gun rifle. It happens.

They only do it out loud when the rifle with aformentioned light won't fit thru the port that was required that you shoot thru

That still cracks me up thinking about it.

 

[Prdator]

What if THE DAY never comes and in the mean time you miss out on all these fun matches because you couldn't use your IWB holster? Surely you don't think practicing by shooting a match with an OWB holster will ruin your IWB muscle memory completely?

Jess,
THE DAY has came, did I have to use my gun?? NO but it's been the difreance in my body lanquage, from Car jackings, to attempted muggings to threats with a deadly weapon, its happend to me.. and it was THE DAY I did not get to chose.. there a come as you are event...

Besides I do have fun at the few matches I go to.

and yes a OWB WILL screw my presintation up!! that's why I only own one.

I'm all for folks shooting it's way better than Golf!!! ( I guess Never played that either)

 

[Jefpainthorse]

match shooting, as we know it, ignores the fact that the mind will not have certain cues in a real world defensive shooting situation.

At a match (shot under any association's rules), you know what you are going to do before the buzzer initiates action. On the street... the hints to action are often subtle. Hands moving into pockets, a body "blading" as it approaches or other tells are easily missed. They are hard to train for too. Reading people and situations is just a tough skill to learn.

Humans are masters of the lie. Bad people have a knack for hiding intent until the last second... and most of us operate at some level of denial- until the situation has gone critical

Match shooting is a rehearsal of fundementals. Those who excel, typically, have some ability to refine reaction and control motor skills. Some people are able to combine and transfer range skills to the street... others may not be so sucessful.

Paranoia is good when people are out to hurt you.

 

[Spiff]

They only do it out loud when the rifle with aformentioned light won't fit thru the port that was required that you shoot thru

That still cracks me up thinking about it.

That was actually the fault of the fsb, but the light probably didn't help.

 

[Biggs]

I tend to ankle carry, and I don't think the IDPA would be tool cool with me competing that way.

I do have a setup optimized for competition and it would admittedly be useless to me on the street. Fiber optic sights and dark alleys are a good combination.

That said, I'd really like to run a match sometime soon with my carry setup just to see how that goes. G19 vs. WC CQB Elite... should be fun!

 

[Lance Jensen]

I shot my duty gun last Saturday for the USSA IDPA match... I do that every once in awhile. Went well, just had to really concentrate on trigger control. 3lb triggers make sloppy shooters LOL... A 5lb trigger will make you work!

 

[KurtM]

Carry a mag in a pocket??? Cell phone maybe, but never a mag. Want to know why?? 3 quick examples.

One: small piece of plastic tooth pick that the guy had put in his pocket so as not to litter somehow got into his mag through a witnes hole, jammed the mag after the reload; cost the guy several months in the hospital, but the one round that did chamber and fire eventually worked.

Two: loose .45 Colt mag in pocket got a penny slid in between top bullet and mag body, rapidly inserted and since the mag was full it bound up the gun and mag, slide wouldn't retract, couldn't strip the mag, wouldn't go bang. Result no penalty except getting to watch the instructor...me, beat the gun apart with a dead blow hammer so he could keep taking the course.

Three: loose +2 base plate on Glock mag snagged the pocket as the mag was withdrawn. Result, ripped pocket, flood of extra ammo, spring, follower, etc. hit ground, judicious amount of running and luck saved the guys life, but lost a really nice car.

Do what you want, but I always carry a mag in a holder. As for ruining your draw stroke, learning bad habits etc. if you practice both you will be good at both. I usual carry IWB I use a Blade Tech holster at belt level for competition, I haven't noticed any degredation in my draw stroke speed with either one while switching back and forth, and while we are visiting this whole Martial Artist/Gamer thing think about this, Life , as in a match, will be ONE draw after that the skill sets of shooting are the same so lets not make any big deal out of a single event, and concentrat on the evolving event. KurtM

 

[TroyF]

Kurt's last statement is spot on. Bravo.

 

[Lance Jensen]

True dat

 

[benjamin-benjamin]

yeah i went to a match where i used my carry weapon, but i got weird looks when i started punching all the targets!!!

seriously, this is what it comes down to, will you shoot more often/have more fun with "comp" gear, if the answer is yes, then do that... if no then keep doing what you are doing... i have seen great shooters use new guns, new holsters, etc.. and smoke people that are using their "familiar" gear, most of the stuff transfer over....

 

[shootingbuff]

At the matches I've attended I usually catch some flak for doing the match the way I EDC...
Just lookin' for a little feedback!!! Thanks!!!

Hi,
Great - I tell folks to shoot for their own reason/s. You want to practice how you EDC - then dont worry about it, or use that frustration and turn it into quality practice.

I think more power to you. Unfortunately gamers like like me only shoot for the fun of competition and enjoyment of shooting so the EDC aspect for me only goes as far as the rules make me go. What I suggest you try is alternating competition gear with your EDC gear so you can have the best of both worlds.

JT has basically stated how I used to shoot yrs ago. I would use my carry gun and switch holsters and mag carriers. I am to poor to have a game only gun and like being used to the gun I carry. That stated I dont think any match is a substitute for practice. Now having stated that lol I have shot only 2 matches since Feb and I consider that knocking a little rust off and trigger time, but not practice. Practice is something you can work with and a match you can not stop, analyze, and repeat until you figure it out or get better. Now these two matches I did use an IWB holster, though did use mag carriers. I also used an over garment. Could I had done better with even just an OWB holster - you beat. Did I care about my standings - no because I shot for fun and had a blast. I learned the less I care about standings, the more enjoyable the match is. A match is something you can use to measure how well you did on x day. From there you should identify your weakness and work on it for the next match. Use the match to identify what you need to work on and enjoy the match.

If you are worried about standings you need to practice and maybe switch gear, be it holster, sights, gun, mags all the above etc. I suggest to figure out what you want out of the match and yes everyone wants to do well, but a match is only with a few people and on any given Sunday...... You'll get more feedback from quality practice and a log. You should always be shooting and concerned with how you are doing and not someone else.

Sorry for the preaching or repetitiveness if someone else already stated these things.

 

[shootingbuff]

match shooting, as we know it, ignores the fact that the mind will not have certain cues in a real world defensive shooting situation.

At a match (shot under any association's rules), you know what you are going to do before the buzzer initiates action. On the street... the hints to action are often subtle. Hands moving into pockets, a body "blading" as it approaches or other tells are easily missed. They are hard to train for too. Reading people and situations is just a tough skill to learn.

Humans are masters of the lie. Bad people have a knack for hiding intent until the last second... and most of us operate at some level of denial- until the situation has gone critical

Paranoia is good when people are out to hurt you.

Right or wrong my thoughts on the street you better be aware of whats going on and get out if you can and if not, have your pistol out or at least your hand on it. The speed of an attack may not allow you to get set and draw your firearm.
This means the holster type/position has very little to do with the presentation. Practice as you fight because it may make the difference though when it comes to the draw from concealment you are already behind the curve being concealed and if you are unaware and surprised ......

Just my .02 and at todays value.........

 

[shootingbuff]

As KM stated - there is only one draw stroke per stage unless you have strings and then most times but not all the time. Transitions is where you will pick speed up as well as not dropping shots or poor hits as well as moving in and out of positions.

 

[ExSniper]

Maybe it is time to re-examine your EDC gear. If it is too slow for IDPA then it will probably get you killed on the street. You don't have to be a gamer to learn what does and does not work.

 

[KurtM]

Well alright, lets get a base line of what is fast from concealment. I once had a "Nationally Recognized" trainer tell a bunch of folks at a "seminar" he could draw from Concealment, and put "two centered A zone hits on a target at 10 yards less than 2" apart in .87 seconds. Now I am slow, and I am not very accurate, but I know folks that are, and that would be a VERY rare individuall that could do that will a full on race holster and an open pistol, and when I offered up the fact that I would love to see that and I had a timer with me right then, he declined my offer in a not very nice way because I was in fact calling into question his ability.( Hint: I wouldn't say it unless I could do it, but it DOES sound good in print! :85: )

So what is fast? From an IWB holster with a 1911 I can usually do a good controlled pair at 7 yards, with mostly A zone hits in around 1.3-1.5 seconds, and that would be with a lot of practice, usuall everyday time would be around 1.75. this is with a jacket or shirt coverning the pistol totally. If I run an outside the waist band holster I can sneek down into the 1.25 range, and everyday 1.5 time frame, due to a lot less friction between pistol and holster, and that is without any security strap kind of deal. Cooper always opined that if you cold do a good "hammer" at 7 yards in 1.5 you were very good. So what is the consensus?

Now the few times I thought I needed a pistol while out and about, I had soooo much warning from being generally aware that I couldn't say that draw stroke would have had anything to do with the outcome, and once it could easily been in a doskosil case for all that mattered ( no I never had to discharge the pistol in any of the cases), however one time the "speed of draw" was impressive enough to disuade the beligerant fellow that his idea wasn't a good one, so I guess it is a good skill to have, but what is fast enough from concealment? This might be a fun little discussion. KurtM

 

[DoctorJJ]

What's fast enough from concealment? Well, if Kurt can do it in 1.5-1.7 seconds, then 2 seconds better be good enough or I'm going to be dead because I don't think I'll ever be as fast as Kurt. LOL!

 

[KurtM]

Personally I don't think draw speed is the end all or be all of self defence, it is a lot more about mind set and awareness, but EVERYONE seems to think about first round draw speed because it is something we can quantify. It is very hard to quantify "mind-set"

 

[Wall]

The time it takes you to recognize that you need to draw is much more important than the time it takes to perform the draw.

 

[Burk Cornelius]

Now I am slow, and I am not very accurate

First of all, I don't believe this for a minute, Kurt

..what is fast enough from concealment? This might be a fun little discussion. KurtM

At the Carry Gun match in November we had a stage that required a draw and fire five rounds at 3 feet. Here are the times from that stage. Shooters ranged from a Grand Master to, well, me. Most were from concealment, some were in competition holsters, and ONE was fired THROUGH his coat pocket

1.40 <--------- JT with competition gear
1.94
2.56
2.13
2.98
2.33
5.47
2.41
3.18
2.02
3.74
2.21
3.48
2.04
2.66
2.59
2.51
1.87
2.87 <----------guy shooting .357 snubbie through his coat pocket
1.97
2.61
3.06
2.50
2.57
2.75
6.05