Best 12ga HD Ammo for the wife / 00 or #4 12 Gauge?

I'm by no means a guru on this subject and it's been awhile since I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express but why all the talk about racking a pump shotgun? I've always been told that a defensive weopon is no good unless it can go boom so I feel there should be one ready to go, no BG hearing the racking just a boom. Overpenetration is a little difficult for me to grasp! yes I know that while sheetrock and siding are not great to stop a bullet I don't see my 40SW dropping my neighbor in their bathroom, others in the house I could see a concern BUT I dang sure want something that is gonna drop someone so I don't have to come up with some story and worry about someone giving another story!

Birdshot while not like the BEST choice of something to stop a BG I think it would work rather well! most shots would be a close range, the birdshot should not have a mess of time for the pattern to open up. Would I choose birdshot to defend myself with? nope I tend to think #4 buck a good choice but my SG is in the safe as I tend to just keep my buddy with me most of the time (G23) I do feel an autoloader to be a better choice than a pump gun and feel it just as easy to train to clear an auto as it is to train for a pump but that's just my opinion.

I have found that most chicks don't really take into consideration that we guys actually do care about the women in our lives and that they could take care of themselves if the time came that they had to defend themselves, it's really hard to not get pissed at them when they play a joke but just do your best to explain or do like I did when I was married and have someone else explain as it seemed to work better when not coming from me, I could tell my ex her rest on her bow was loose let's adjust and she would rip my head off! BUT I could have one of the others tell her and she would ask me to help her adjust her rest? never figured it out but hey if it works run with it :-) Later,

Kirk
 
http://www.kfor.com/...0,6972637.story

DEL CITY, OK â€"â€" A woman is dead after police say a stray bullet went through her apartment wall and killed her. They also say it took three days for it to be reported. Friday around 7 p.m., Del City Police say the woman living in apartment 15 at Cedar Hills Apartments was killed by a stray bullet. They say 65-year-old Marilyn Cory was in her home when her neighbor's gun went off. They say Cory's neighbor is a 24-year-old airman who works at Tinker Air Force Base.


Cpt. Jody Suit with the Del City Police Dept. said, "A person was in apartment 14 messing with a firearm and, at some point, that firearm allegedly was discharged. We believe it to be accidental, but don't know that for sure yet."

Neighbor Robert Ortiz remembers he and a friend heard it that night.

Robert Ortiz said, "He said he heard something pop real loud. He thought it was my frozen coke that I left in the sink. He jumped up scared. That's all we heard after that."

The man who fired the shot claims he repeatedly knocked on his neighbor's door all weekend, but got no response.

Police say it was Monday afternoon when the gun owner finally asked apartment managers to check on his neighbor.

The District Attorney is not yet reviewing the case.

They're waiting on the police reports to be finalized before they make any decisions.

Just a few more.
http://articles.boston.com/2012-02-1...al-center-wall

http://www.heraldextra.com/news/loca...9bb2963f4.html

http://www.kgw.com/home/Aloha-man-sh...137383893.html

There are hundreds of reports like this of over penetration of pistol and rifle rounds killing or wounding innocent people.
 
40 will go thru walls and drop a neighbor but damned if it will drop a pig with a shot square between the eyes! Dennis your just a weath of information! thanks. Later,

Kirk
 
Keith Cross said:
Jerry,
LOL! I blame it on the interwebs! That's the problem with typing something rather than converfsing face 2 face - you lose a lot of the detail that tells me "This guy's being funny!" No worries man! I've enjoyed all the banter from both sides and it has given me much to think about concerning home defense!

A funny story...
I actually picked up the shotgun Wednesday (along with some 00 buck) and have been familiarizing myself with it and all that jazz. I finally got the wife to handle it some tonight and get used to how it operates. We then took a walk around the house discussing all the various shooting lanes/angles (thanks to Jerry). While telling her how she really doesn't walk to stalk through the house unless she feels it absolutely necessary, she says "I know what to do." She took the gun and began to PIE THE CORNER around the doorway into the bathroom! Just as I was beginning to be impressed and she was about halfway around she jumps full open into the doorway, shotgun at her hip and yells "Hi-yah!"

As I facepalmed myself I heard her say "I say that on a cop movie..."

I'm in trouble....
Click to expand...

LMAO - sorry but I can imagine that. My wife did something similar though it was with driving. Funny to a third party I am sure. lol

Sounds like your wife has a great start. Just needs a little insight into the why. Get a couple of squirt guns or nerfs and play aggresser/defender and take turns clearing the house. Once she sees what she can do to you or vice versa she will get he idea.

Then give her a broom handle or something a bit longer than hte SG to use as the SG and have her practice moving through the house. The longer (maybe) length will get her used to staying back just a bit further and demonstrate how the bbl can be grabed pushed or at at least seen in advance. You need to take turns with it as well.

Best to you and yours,
 
Kirk Smith (ksmirk) said:
I'm by no means a guru on this subject and it's been awhile since I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express but why all the talk about racking a pump shotgun? I've always been told that a defensive weopon is no good unless it can go boom so I feel there should be one ready to go, no BG hearing the racking just a boom. Overpenetration is a little difficult for me to grasp! yes I know that while sheetrock and siding are not great to stop a bullet I don't see my 40SW dropping my neighbor in their bathroom, others in the house I could see a concern BUT I dang sure want something that is gonna drop someone so I don't have to come up with some story and worry about someone giving another story!

Birdshot while not like the BEST choice of something to stop a BG I think it would work rather well! most shots would be a close range, the birdshot should not have a mess of time for the pattern to open up. Would I choose birdshot to defend myself with? nope I tend to think #4 buck a good choice but my SG is in the safe as I tend to just keep my buddy with me most of the time (G23) I do feel an autoloader to be a better choice than a pump gun and feel it just as easy to train to clear an auto as it is to train for a pump but that's just my opinion.

I have found that most chicks don't really take into consideration that we guys actually do care about the women in our lives and that they could take care of themselves if the time came that they had to defend themselves, it's really hard to not get pissed at them when they play a joke but just do your best to explain or do like I did when I was married and have someone else explain as it seemed to work better when not coming from me, I could tell my ex her rest on her bow was loose let's adjust and she would rip my head off! BUT I could have one of the others tell her and she would ask me to help her adjust her rest? never figured it out but hey if it works run with it :-) Later,

Kirk
Click to expand...

Last first I feel your pain about the wife issue.

To the pump being racked: Some folks don't keep a round in the chamber (I am with on having it loaded and a round chambered) As was brought up some might need more than one shot or there might be more than one so you would have to have a way of getting er done. I don't think the sound of a shotgun being racked is the sound heard around the world. I would rather let the SOB walk into my area not knowing where I was at. Please note I stated anything more than taking the safety off is taking time (something to that effect)

The issue of auto vs pump will be everlasting as 45acp vs 9x19, or Glock vs 1911. If you are trained and comfortable with it and it runs who am I to say you one should change to something else? A gun in hand is better than one elseware when it is needed. I have both and do about the same with both. I will give the nod to a semi auto when it comes to prone or wierd positions.

Let's just be thankful the normal BG isn't as hard to kill as a pig.

Ref overpenetration I hope everyone regardless of caliber or load has picked a suffiecent load for the task at had be it woods the house, traveling long distances on the highway (yes I change my load for traveling) etc. with the knowledge of what to expect in terminal performance. Then add company as required. Above all else know the target and the backstop and what lays beyond.

Always look for the angles that are safe to shoot or the wall that should stop the rounds. None of this matters if you dont have the firearm within arms reach and loaded with a round chambered if you are rushed upon or can not get to your firearm especially if wounded.

Everyone has their own worries and fears and set of circumstances. I keep a pistol on or near me and I am good with that until kids come over. Then I have to adjust fire. Same for my older brother who is more likely to play around with a loaded firearm then the kids that come over. Some may have issues be it spouse, kids etc that precludes them feeling safe with loaded firarms. One doesn't have to agree, but one should respect their concerns/fears. So, what works for one might not for anther.
 
dennishoddy said:
http://www.kfor.com/...0,6972637.story

DEL CITY, OK â€"â€" A woman is dead after police say a stray bullet went through her apartment wall and killed her. They also say it took three days for it to be reported. Friday around 7 p.m., Del City Police say the woman living in apartment 15 at Cedar Hills Apartments was killed by a stray bullet. They say 65-year-old Marilyn Cory was in her home when her neighbor's gun went off. They say Cory's neighbor is a 24-year-old airman who works at Tinker Air Force Base.


Cpt. Jody Suit with the Del City Police Dept. said, "A person was in apartment 14 messing with a firearm and, at some point, that firearm allegedly was discharged. We believe it to be accidental, but don't know that for sure yet."

Neighbor Robert Ortiz remembers he and a friend heard it that night.

Robert Ortiz said, "He said he heard something pop real loud. He thought it was my frozen coke that I left in the sink. He jumped up scared. That's all we heard after that."

The man who fired the shot claims he repeatedly knocked on his neighbor's door all weekend, but got no response.

Police say it was Monday afternoon when the gun owner finally asked apartment managers to check on his neighbor.

The District Attorney is not yet reviewing the case.

They're waiting on the police reports to be finalized before they make any decisions.
Click to expand...

Truely hope the woman was DRT vs bleed out so she wasnt in pain and the Air Man doesn't have to live with I should had gone immediatly to get the manager. He was stupid and will have to live with that but adding the fact that she layed there for x time and he could've helped her really sucks especially if you were the woman.

Folks drop the mag then clear the firearm or dump the shells in the cyl and still keep your freaking finger out of the trigger guard and the firearm pointed in a safe direction and always, always double and triple check the firearm.

Sometimes someone has to die, even shot. No one needs to die from a DA mistake. I don't look at this as an accident. I don't believe in them.
 
Dennis I put a 180gr JHP right square between the eye on a piggie coming to get me, she was not real happy! popped her she hit the ground and my head started getting big telling a buddy did you see that? then he said yeah good shot but you better shoot her some more she's getting up! about the time I turned to her she was up and headed my way! oh elephant dung 3-gun ninja skill took over and I recall 4 rounds but there could have been more :0 she went down and I ran over and put one in her ear. I've still got the bullet and it's a perfect mushroom BUT it didn't even crack the skull. She was about 150-175# dang things are tough.

This is a pretty good conversation about things that could happen be it in the house or in the woods, like me and that pig I KNEW that shot was a good one! did I think she would pop back up and head toward me? nope so just goes to prove that while you may make a good shot pigs are like zombies ya gotta double tap LOL Later,

Kirk
 
Oh no Keith I'm far from being anywhere close to Semi-Pro greatness! I can only hope that one day I'll be able to step up on that scale of fame and marksmanship. Later,

Kirk
 
What is amazing about the pigs is that I had almost the same thing happen with a hand loaded max .44 mag 230 GR HP.
Shot the pig first with the 06, hitting it on the run in the spine, just in front of the back legs. Dropped the legs, and I walked up to it with the .44 to do the Coup de Gras, and it started running at me with the front legs. At 20 yds, shot, but at that instant, the head turned, and the bullet travelled along the spine, stopping in the hind quarter. Like you I still have the mushroomed bullet.
Next shot was at 4 yds slightly above the eyes, and DRT.
I"m totally suprised the .40 wasn't more effective. Perhaps a hard cast lead or FMJ? Tough animals for sure.
 
Either way I see it this way you have to be ready for anything that happens! in the woods, on the street, or in the home. I'm far from what I would say good with a pistol only really been shooting one for about a year or at least more than 50 rounds a year. Shooting these matches has really helped me out by pushing me to try new things and knowing what I can get away with AND I don't have to worry about bad guy or grub eatin' mushroom chewing piggie eating me LOL Later,

Kirk
 
I totally agree with this.
Learned a long time ago that it doesn't matter what you choose to compete in, practice is the key.
I also learned that some folks are "gifted" with the ability to succeed in that particular sport.
I don't know why that happens, but if your skill level is a C class in USPSA, and your doing all the practice you can, have all of the tools to play the game, and can never get above C, enjoy the ride and shoot C class with no regrets.
One should shoot for fun, and the competition is part of that. I admire those that excel, but am happy with the limits of my ability.
 
Either way I see it this way you have to be ready for anything that happens! in the woods, on the street, or in the home. I'm far from what I would say good with a pistol only really been shooting one for about a year or at least more than 50 rounds a year. Shooting these matches has really helped me out by pushing me to try new things and knowing what I can get away with AND I don't have to worry about bad guy or grub eatin' mushroom chewing piggie eating me LOL Later,
Kirk
Click to expand...

I totally agree with this.
Learned a long time ago that it doesn't matter what you choose to compete in, practice is the key.
I also learned that some folks are "gifted" with the ability to succeed in that particular sport.
I don't know why that happens, but if your skill level is a C class in USPSA, and your doing all the practice you can, have all of the tools to play the game, and can never get above C, enjoy the ride and shoot C class with no regrets.
One should shoot for fun, and the competition is part of that. I admire those that excel, but am happy with the limits of my ability.
Click to expand...

This is why I'm hoping to shoot some 3-gun soon and why I've shot the few matches that I have!
 
Agree one needs to be best prepared as possible. With that stated matches are not training. What they will do is allow most to shoot in an enviroment they normally don't have the opportunity to and vreates /re-ienorces habits (both good and bada just like practice). Reminds me of my clubs early yrs when we had a dog handlier making the matches when his shift allowed which was a great deal becasue he lose sleep to make the match and work deals. Anyway I get a call from him aboutthe next day after teh match, midday and I am thinking here is someone else that is going to blast me about IDPA becasue he shot USPSA as well. He starts by bringing up a stage I had 2-3 corners and folks were complaining about thier laxack of use of cover. Well he asks if I rememeber the stage and then goes on to tell me the night before while on shift chasing a BG the guy ducked around a corner and he was about to hug the wall and follow. He stated he slowed and distanced himself from the corner and pied around it nad that was where he found the guy he was chasing waiting for him. A second funny story is during a match a one of my buddies (Great shooter by the way) was about to get started when a rattlesnake found his way into the sceanrio. I told the shooter / my bud if he we wanted to make me happy to get rid of the snake so he fired OMG he missed barely and the freaking snake seemed to be charging us! I took two or three steps to th right drew/ loaded and fired without even thinking about it. No I missed like my buddy but then he nailed it. I precieved a threat. I got distance gained distance from the threat and my buddy and ensure my angles were clear without thinking. Never saw the freaking like. that snake seeingly to charge at us. Started about 30is yds snake went 5 ft or so and about 1.3 or so in dia. baby snake. Why did I opt to have it killed? Because we have three sheeds full of equipment that we kept fresh moth balls in trying to keep the critters out. I could not have someone grabbing gear and getting bit ot otherwise hurt. Could you see a shooter start to go prone and jump up and screaming waving there pistol around becasue the snake was in the right place but not the shooter lol. I deemed it a safety issue.
So matches re-enforce habits and I am a firm beleiver that you push yourself during training/practice nad pull back a notch for matches. <atches should be safe and if one is pushing they may be safe sometime but the chances of not being safe is going to catch up nad no one wants to be that guy and no MD/range/ RO/SO wants to that guy either.

Class dismissed - sorry about the soap box.
 
Got to talking to someone about a good 12 gauge round for home defense. I'd always though 00 was the way to go, but he was saying the 3" #4 was great because it had 16 "pea sized" pellets that would blow them out the front door and turn their chest into hamburger.

Curious to hear what others thoughts are on it.
 
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