Stag Arms 3 Gun Rifle
- Thread starter NL7CO
- Start date
NL7CO
Well-Known Fanatic
Wormy,
I'm listening. And I agree with you for a competition based gun, thats just not what I'm doing.
Different experiences. Different goals.
I'm listening. And I agree with you for a competition based gun, thats just not what I'm doing.
Different experiences. Different goals.
KurtM
Well-Known Fanatic
Well let,s see, the Mk 12 and Mk 12 mod 1 both have free float tubes. So does the Mk 13. I guess the military could have saved a bunch of money if it had listened to you about the designated marksman rifles and free float tubes. When I first met Kyle Lamb back in 95 he was running a free float tube, since then he has designed several of them and used them all in his main job before he retired as the CSGTM of Delta, and so did a lot of his guys. When I do training for group I run into FF tubes all the time. Just because you were issued a particular weapon and couldn't mod it doesn't mean the mods are not usefull to the Military, it mearly means $$$$ got in the way. Oh yeah and Dev Group all has them from the little 10" guns on up. The amount of deflection caused by pushing a barrel against something was considered to be too much for these guys, who like you were and are on a two way range, and they ALL think it helps so much they run them. But what do those pansies know?
benjamin-benjamin
snickerpuss
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2010
- Messages
- 2,907
wow it got hot in here quickly!!
mike cyrwus
.223
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2010
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- 4,826
jtischauser
I'm addicted to kicking ass
Please keep it friendly guys. This ain't ARFCOM. We are all friends for the time being.
NL7CO
Well-Known Fanatic
Well it looks like I'm going to piss in somebodies Wheaties this morning, guess if I'm going to get excommunicated I should at least tell my side before I'm tarred, feathered, and run out of town on a rail.
After reading the final page or so of this diatribe, I had to go back to the beginning and make sure that I understood where this all started. One of my ex-bosses once told me that when arguing with a fool, it is always wise to periodically stop and make sure he isn't doing the same thing.
This whole thing started with me asking a question of Jesse about the Stag rifle that I saw on TV. He had recently announced that he was shooting for Stag and I was hoping that he knew something about this prototype gun. Good choice. Jesse did know about the gun and offered to get me more information. He even lets me know that he has one of them that he'll let me shoot to see if I like the gun and posted a picture of the gun. Thanks Jesse, you're probably doing exactly what Stag wants you to do, be their go-to guy in the local area and interfacing with folks like me who are spending their money on guns for themselves.
Even though the original show was about competitive shooting, I wasn't looking for a completion gun, so I put it in the rifle child of the Guns, Gear, & Survival Forum. My mistake was announcing what I planned to do to the upper(s) when I got it(them) – like changing out the hand guards and putting a light on it. Silly me, I thought that I was spending my money, on my gun, to do what I want to do with it.
I figured that the first comment about leaving the free float tube on it was just someone who preferred those things, so I committed the second mistake by telling him that I don't like them on my guns. I took Jesse's follow on comments about them not being there to attach gadgets to as a competitor's view and his desire to run his guns his way. I did reply to his statement saying the in my experiences I had not noticed a problem. I also pointed out that I wasn't setting up competition guns; I was setting up my guns.
At this point, the reversion to junior high school began.
First, I'm told that I'm stupid. That I don't understand simple things and my betters were going to force feed me knowledge like Sister Mary Catherine tried to do all those years ago. Not a particularly good way to get a dialog started, but then I had already made the two mistakes noted above. The one who felt that I was too stupid to understand then proceeded to lecture me that his choices were the only way to go. Another poster stated his opinion of the most important things you can do to make a gun more accurate and then offered to buy the free float tube off of me if I made the switch because he really believed in them. Another comment came in with some empirical data based on the posters own experience. Good data, not what I had observed for myself, but good data anyway.
And now we come to the sarcastic, personal attack from the Sainted Kurt Miller. Kurt, I never said that I worked in the Capabilities Development Division of a Center of Excellence. Nor did I claim to be part of the appropriate TRADOC Capabilities Manager responsible for the development of military small arms. Nor do I particularly care what is in your gun safe(s). I made comments about spending MY money on MY toys to do what I want to do along with MY reasons for coming up with MY beliefs.
But I do have a couple of questions for you:
1. What the hell is a CSGTM? Are you trying to say CSM? As in Command Sergeant Major – the senior enlisted guy in all Army headquarters at Battalion and above? Since Klye Lamb is a retired SGM (Sergeant Major – same pay grade (E-9) – different responsibilities), I doubt that he was the CSM. But I'll ask him when I take one of his classes next year.
2. I didn't see any free float tubes on the M-14's being used by the Squad Designated Marksmen in the unit I visited in Germany three weeks ago – are they having a money problem also? There seemed to be enough money to pay my way over there.
Bottom line: My money. My guns.
After reading the final page or so of this diatribe, I had to go back to the beginning and make sure that I understood where this all started. One of my ex-bosses once told me that when arguing with a fool, it is always wise to periodically stop and make sure he isn't doing the same thing.
This whole thing started with me asking a question of Jesse about the Stag rifle that I saw on TV. He had recently announced that he was shooting for Stag and I was hoping that he knew something about this prototype gun. Good choice. Jesse did know about the gun and offered to get me more information. He even lets me know that he has one of them that he'll let me shoot to see if I like the gun and posted a picture of the gun. Thanks Jesse, you're probably doing exactly what Stag wants you to do, be their go-to guy in the local area and interfacing with folks like me who are spending their money on guns for themselves.
Even though the original show was about competitive shooting, I wasn't looking for a completion gun, so I put it in the rifle child of the Guns, Gear, & Survival Forum. My mistake was announcing what I planned to do to the upper(s) when I got it(them) – like changing out the hand guards and putting a light on it. Silly me, I thought that I was spending my money, on my gun, to do what I want to do with it.
I figured that the first comment about leaving the free float tube on it was just someone who preferred those things, so I committed the second mistake by telling him that I don't like them on my guns. I took Jesse's follow on comments about them not being there to attach gadgets to as a competitor's view and his desire to run his guns his way. I did reply to his statement saying the in my experiences I had not noticed a problem. I also pointed out that I wasn't setting up competition guns; I was setting up my guns.
At this point, the reversion to junior high school began.
First, I'm told that I'm stupid. That I don't understand simple things and my betters were going to force feed me knowledge like Sister Mary Catherine tried to do all those years ago. Not a particularly good way to get a dialog started, but then I had already made the two mistakes noted above. The one who felt that I was too stupid to understand then proceeded to lecture me that his choices were the only way to go. Another poster stated his opinion of the most important things you can do to make a gun more accurate and then offered to buy the free float tube off of me if I made the switch because he really believed in them. Another comment came in with some empirical data based on the posters own experience. Good data, not what I had observed for myself, but good data anyway.
And now we come to the sarcastic, personal attack from the Sainted Kurt Miller. Kurt, I never said that I worked in the Capabilities Development Division of a Center of Excellence. Nor did I claim to be part of the appropriate TRADOC Capabilities Manager responsible for the development of military small arms. Nor do I particularly care what is in your gun safe(s). I made comments about spending MY money on MY toys to do what I want to do along with MY reasons for coming up with MY beliefs.
But I do have a couple of questions for you:
1. What the hell is a CSGTM? Are you trying to say CSM? As in Command Sergeant Major – the senior enlisted guy in all Army headquarters at Battalion and above? Since Klye Lamb is a retired SGM (Sergeant Major – same pay grade (E-9) – different responsibilities), I doubt that he was the CSM. But I'll ask him when I take one of his classes next year.
2. I didn't see any free float tubes on the M-14's being used by the Squad Designated Marksmen in the unit I visited in Germany three weeks ago – are they having a money problem also? There seemed to be enough money to pay my way over there.
Bottom line: My money. My guns.
Wormydog1724
ATAS Ninja
Never did I call you stupid. If you took it that way I apologize. My posting habit has become blunt because I tire of the same debates over, and over, and over. My first post was trying to explain what a previous post meant. I said 'you don't get it' not because I think you are stupid, just because the original post wasn't all that clear and your reply to it made me believe that you did not get what was being said. You brought your experiences into the thread and so did I. I do not think my way is the only way. I was trying to explain the what why and how I choose my gear. Then by me saying 'you're not listening' is what I found to be an accurate statement. You ignore the facts and experiences presented to you by several different posters and continually change the subject and blame other factors rather than the fact that ff > nonFF.
And this is where I stop. You are 100% correct it is your money, you're rifle, and you have the right to spend it how you wish, no matter who says what or why another option may be better.
Best of luck and happy trails.
And this is where I stop. You are 100% correct it is your money, you're rifle, and you have the right to spend it how you wish, no matter who says what or why another option may be better.
Best of luck and happy trails.
benjamin-benjamin
snickerpuss
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2010
- Messages
- 2,907
i am having PTSD and flashbacks from OSA!!!
Don, i agree that some people came off a little harsh, but don't leave the forum based on a couple of responses... if it makes you feel any better i still love you!!!
Don, i agree that some people came off a little harsh, but don't leave the forum based on a couple of responses... if it makes you feel any better i still love you!!!
KurtM
Well-Known Fanatic
Tell Kyle I said hi and ask him about the w w 6 story and the mouse hunt, these are great stories. Ask him why he designs and uses FF tubes for AR type rifles and ask him why they don't have them for M-14s (hint it is a different weapon system and it requiers a substantial stock to barrel tension in the 7-25# range of down force at the front ferrul in order to stablize the harmonics of the operating system, or in the case of the Sage Int. stock, a op rod guide* with a screw in the bottom to unitize the stock and operating system which still isn't as accurate as down force or pressure bedding.) As for Germany and Free Float tubes....well I like German beer enough that I need a piss tube cause my kidnies are free floating everytime I visit
*As a side note the op rod guide replacement for the Sage sytem attaches directly to the barrel so it in no way shape or form Free Floats the M-14/M1A barrel
*As a side note the op rod guide replacement for the Sage sytem attaches directly to the barrel so it in no way shape or form Free Floats the M-14/M1A barrel
jtischauser
I'm addicted to kicking ass
Alright guys I'm locking this one up. There is no need to argue over something so ridiculous.
For what it's worth the Stag 3 gun rifle will be out in October and the MSRP will be as such...
Model 3G (right-handed): MSRP $1459 without sights, $1659 with Dueck Defense RTS
Model 3GL (left-handed): MSRP $1479 without sights, $1679 with Dueck Defense RTS
For what it's worth the Stag 3 gun rifle will be out in October and the MSRP will be as such...
Model 3G (right-handed): MSRP $1459 without sights, $1659 with Dueck Defense RTS
Model 3GL (left-handed): MSRP $1479 without sights, $1679 with Dueck Defense RTS
NL7CO
Well-Known Fanatic
An apology is in order and this one is going out both openly and privately to the individuals involved.
I let my BTDT get in the way of my common sense and hopefully, my common courtesy. And for that, I do apologize to those who were doing their best to inform me of a possible mistake based on their experiences and observations. That it did not fit my experiences and pre-conceived notions is no excuse for my actions and/or words.
Gentlemen, thank you for your opinions and honest attempts to educate me, I am truly sorry that I did not act in an appropriate manner.
I let my BTDT get in the way of my common sense and hopefully, my common courtesy. And for that, I do apologize to those who were doing their best to inform me of a possible mistake based on their experiences and observations. That it did not fit my experiences and pre-conceived notions is no excuse for my actions and/or words.
Gentlemen, thank you for your opinions and honest attempts to educate me, I am truly sorry that I did not act in an appropriate manner.
KurtM
Well-Known Fanatic
I apologise to you Don, My sarcastic "wit" is seldom well received, and I should know better!
mike cyrwus
.223
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2010
- Messages
- 4,826
koom bay aa!
taymoor
Skilled Lover
configure your rifles how you want, but please let me do the next switch for you. Your gunsmith got one hell of a deal!
jtischauser
I'm addicted to kicking ass
I luv u guys and Taymoor!
NL7CO
Well-Known Fanatic
My gunsmith is a battle buddy. In the overall scheme of things, I probably still owe him something - or maybe he owes me, who knows.
taymoor
Skilled Lover
I love you guys too. Especially Jesse and Kurt. Two of the most helpful guys I know
Wormydog1724
ATAS Ninja
I'm glad we're all friends again. Now Go Pokes!!
maybe $150+ worth of parts for about $25 worth of parts, but I guess insignificant considering the circumstance.
I'm glad this got turned back around. I'm all for setting your stuff up the way you want, after all it's yours.
I also appreciate all the great advice I get from our members even when it doesn't necessarily fit my prefreferences.
