Primary Arms 1-6x

[kg4kpg]

Primary Arms just introduced their new scope. A 1-6x due out in September. I've shot their 4-14x44 FFP and now have a 1-4x24. They make nice scope for the price, no bad reviews that I've seen yet.

https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary-Arms-1-6X-Scope-with-ACSS-Reticle-p/pa1-6xrbd.htm

 

[jfeenin]

Has anyone used similar optics from this Mfr? How does the quality (both physical and optical) of these compare to say a Leupold, or Nikon? I wouldn't expect it to be as tough as say an ACOG but I like the design.

I am thinking of replacing the optic on my AR-10 with something in a 4-6x range and this has a reticle very similar to my TA-11H which I really like.

 

[slidewayz240sx]

My wife has a PA red dot similar to the Aimpoint and a 3x magnifier with flip to side mount on her AR15. Both are great and hold zero well. Both her and I beat the piss out of her weapon after zero and no issues so far. For the price you certainly can't beat it.

 

[Midnight Raver]

Your wife looks all too comfortable employing that firearm, I wouldn't wish to be even remotely downrange from her!!! :shock:

Certainly a very nice rifle setup right there.

 

[slidewayz240sx]

Your wife looks all too comfortable employing that firearm, I wouldn't wish to be even remotely downrange from her!!! :shock:

Certainly a very nice rifle setup right there.

One of the many reasons I married her. She has just as many firearms as I do.

As per the OP, for the price of these optics, you really can't go wrong. Most of the reviews I have read about products from Primary Arms have mostly been positive. If you don't plan on saving the world or fighting terrorist anytime soon with your rifle, you should be fine. No doubt in my mind these could hold up to quite a few 3 gun matches if you wanted to do those.

 

[kg4kpg]

I have the 1-4x now and like it. I shot a .308 with a 4-14x and it was pretty sweet. I'm hoping to be able to get the 1-6x when they become available next month and keep the 1-4x as a back-up.

 

[jfeenin]

I am glad you mentioned the holding zero. To me that is the absolute most important thing any optic must do and far too many don't do it well. I've been perusing the options for replacing the Bushnell 1x MP on my AR-10 because I want something with a little Magnification. Leupold has some good options, and of course there is the Trijicon TR-24 but that is a serious wallet crusher. I've had good experiences with both of those brands though both in the holding zero department and they are both pretty clear. Which is another thing I have come to appreciate. Nikon has a few too.

Have you looked at a similar PA magnified scope side by side against a similar Nikon or Leupold? How does it compare clarity wise? At $250 it's cheaper than a Leupold and way cheaper than a Trijicon but it's also too much to gamble to mail order and never use. Hopefully someplace nearby carries them in stock so we can look at them first hand when they come out.

 

[kg4kpg]

I've had two Nikons, a 2-10x and a 2-7x. I wasn't able to get a good zero with the 2-10x but I also couldnt get a good eye relief either and never figured out why. Never shot on the 2-7x, furlough kicked in and I needed some cash flow. I really like the clarity of my 1-4x and I like the reticle, I just need to get a day that I can go zero it. Plus the center dot is illuminated, if ever it is needed for zombies in the woods at night.
I don't think you will find a Primary Arms in a local shop unless it is a consignment. Usually you will find them direct from PA, Rainier Arms carries their stuff, or on AR15.com from private sellers. I do know if their product has a defect or malfunction due to the scope, Primary Arms will send a replacement before you send the bad one back, and if they show something in stock, it arrives within 3 or 4 days. On my budget, they are the best bang for the buck. As stated above, their red dot 1x optics get great reviews wherever you look.

 

[jfeenin]

I don't own any Nikon's personally but I've used a few on other peoples gear. In general being a camera lens Mfr it's not surprising they have clear optics in general. I do own a few Leupold's and an ACOG and I can't say anything but good about them.

That being said... the Trijicon is just not likely to be in my price range and I am not sure I can justify spending that kind of money even if it were. I'd love to, don't get me wrong... but I wish it came with an H reticle like my TA-11 has. The Leupold's I was looking at are similarly almost twice the cost of this PA and don't have as similar of a reticle as the PA. Then again this PA is the new product and sometimes that doesn't always work out so well for first adopters. No matter I am out of money and a little in the doghouse after ordering more AR-10 Mags Monday so I am sure the reviews of this will be rolling in somewhere before I can swing one.

This is the TA-11H Reticle:

and this is the PA ACSS Reticle:

It would be nice to see one to see what the size scale really is but it's not hard to see why the PA interests me. Being that the optic is variable and it's a 2nd focal plane that BDC can only be correct at one magnification. I wonder if it's the 1x or 6x end.

Certainly the Trijicon has an advantage that it never needs batteries and you can never forget to turn it off, not to mention they are built like a tank, but the $650 difference in price will buy a lot of batteries not to mention bullets.

 

[slidewayz240sx]

Have you ever looked into Vortex optics too? They are great and there glass is awesome. They are pricier than PA for sure but cheaper than leopold. I would almost say they are a knock off of leopold.

 

[jfeenin]

I've looked at Vortex but honestly for what I am looking for I don't see them as being any cheaper than Leupold. For example in the 1-4x tactical scope I find the following two examples on MidwayUSA (I am only using them because they list both and it gives a fair 1:1 price comparison)..

Leupold Mark AR MOD 1 Rifle Scope 1.5-4x 20mm 1/10 Mil Adjustments Green Illuminated FireDot SPR Reticle Matte: $399.99
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/970585 ... icle-matte

Vortex Viper PST Rifle Scope 30mm Tube 1-4x 24mm 1/2 MOA Adjustments Illuminated TMCQ Reticle Matte: $479.99
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/458642 ... icle-matte

Of these two I would pick the Leupold not just for price but the fact that Leupold Tactical scopes are still made in the USA and I am pretty sure the Vortex Viper series is made overseas like the Leupold Rifleman series. I could be wrong but I don't think so. They service them here and they have great customer service from what I have read but if I am going to spend the amount of money that will allow me to buy an American made item than that is what I will choose. I know Vortex is an American company but to me it's the worker that makes it that matters more than who owns the company. Similarly I believe that buying a Honda from a factory employing American workers is better than buying a Ford made in Mexico. At the end of the day it's the worker who's table is getting the food on it that matters to me.

No matter both the Vortex and Leupold are likely too rich for my wallet right now and for the near future. Although there are some non-tactical 1-4 Leupolds that are cheaper but I do like the reticle on this which along with the positive reviews and price have me considering it. That and it's a ways away and I may change my mind six ways from Sunday before I come up with the funds to do anything anyways LOL

 

[bigfutz]

So how do you feel the PA 1-4x at $119 stacks up to the leupold and Vortex at 3-4x the price? I think of it like this: are they 3-4x better?

 

[jfeenin]

Wow I need a don't post when deliriously tired filter! However to answer your question... I can only say I don't know because i have no first hand experience with Vortex or PA. As such any comparison I make on their respective quality would be based in ignorance. My only point was that if I was going to spend the amount of money that would allow me to buy American vs not... I would choose to do so. That honestly isn't likely to be the case. As such I am very interested in the PA option both for price but also the reviews and of course that reticle. If I buy one, a year from now I can tell you how I think it compares. It honestly I think takes that long to truly know if an optic not only holds zero at the range but maintains it during storage and then through cycles of each.

On the latter I can tell you the ACOG and my Leupold's both do well. However my not very expensive Bushnell 1x MP (I paid $136 for it for reference) on the AR-10 now has also proven to do so very well too. It too seems to be built like a tank. It's a little dark compared to the others though. Still if someone was looking for that style or red dot I would feel comfortable recommending it. As such I do think you can get decent optics for decent prices. The relationship between that and my beliefs in supporting American Manufacturing when I can aren't exactly the same thing. That has more to do with the number of people I have known over the years who have had their jobs move overseas.

Anyway my opinion on that like anyone's is just that, my opinion. There's no reason for anyone to agree with it and everyone is welcome to theirs as well. I am certainly not offended by anyone not agreeing. I did not mean to imply that either PA or Vortex weren't quality products. Most reports indicate they in fact are. If not I wouldn't consider the PA at any price.

And there I am rambling again... I'll shut up now

 

[bigfutz]

Wow I need a don't post when deliriously tired filter!

Was that directed toward me? :lol:
I too like to buy American, but only if it's for quality/value reasons. Don't forget, American importers/truckers/retailers need to eat too.

 

[jfeenin]

Nope, directed towards myself. I tend to ramble and go waaayyyy off topic when I am over-tired. As for the truckers and retailers. They still get paid movign US made goods. Importers will make theirs either way. Either way we've gotten way off the original topic here and I think it's my fault so... let's get back on topic...

If I do get one of these I will be sure to post a review here.

 

[jfeenin]

It looks like these are in stock now and making it into peoples hands. So far it seems the reviews are positive. This I think is the most comprehensive one i have seen anywhere yet: http://fnforum.net/forums/optics-mounts ... eview.html

When mine arrives I will be sure to share my thoughts...

 

[kg4kpg]

It looks like these are in stock now and making it into peoples hands. So far it seems the reviews are positive. This I think is the most comprehensive one i have seen anywhere yet: http://fnforum.net/forums/optics-mounts ... eview.html

When mine arrives I will be sure to share my thoughts...

I'll be looking forward to your review. Thanks to furlough and my sudden brokedness :roll: I won't be getting one anytime soon.

 

[jfeenin]

I know how ya feel, I've been there. I probably shouldn't have bought it either but I've been married over 20 years and if there is one thing I've learned it's when the wife says yes click the submit button before she can say "Just Kidding". LOL I will definitely post my impressions when it arrives next week but it won't get used no matter what for a few weeks at least due to other commitments.

I have to admit i was tempted to try and reach for the Leupold I linked above. I have a couple of their scopes and they are indeed fine glass. There are three reasons I didn't though. First, the PA is 6x vs 4x. Second, the PA has a reticle I really think will be similar to my ACOG. Last and honestly the most... the price. The Leupold is expensive and at this point in life it's just simply more than I can spend on an optic. The PA with a mount was $100 less than the Leupold without one. I've read a lot of positive reviews of PA in general and the one I linked above of this particular scope had some details I was looking for. Like exactly how big the reticle is in the field of view.

 

[jfeenin]

OK the scope arrived yesterday and I looked it over a bit and mounted it to the AR-10. I can't say much about build quality yet other than it appears to be put together well. It's really not easy to tell much about how tough it is just by looking at it. It does have a solid feel to it though. I bought the basic PA Extended mount for it since I didn't already have a mount. I would have loved to have been able to spring for the American Defense mount but as I mention cost was an issue and that was almost 3x the cost. The PA mount seems to work fine and after all I don't have QD mounts on my ACOG either.

The scope comes with the stock flip caps installed. I opted to upgrade to the butler creek caps. Had I seen the stock ones first hand before purchasing it's likely that at most I would have upgraded the rear cap only if at all. The stock ones seem to do the trick better than I expected they would. Also in the box is a small lens cleaning cloth, a small jewelers screwdriver and an instruction sheet.

The front of the instruction sheet has a big red warning to read it first. This is because it warns that you need to manually focus the eyepiece so you can see the reticle clearly before you do anything else. I assume it has this because with the flip caps installed it's not readily visible that it has the standard twist focus diopter eyepiece. If the caps weren't pre-installed it would be obvious because the scope is marked. The cap completely covers those markings though and you have to remove the cap to focus it if needed. Incidentally the focus on mine was right on out of the box.

The all important reticle. If you read the linked review from my earlier post he comments on how much it might show up in bright daylight. I can't speak for certain yet because it's been cloudy the last couple afternoons. In my apartments light the illumination seems to work fine but I suspect it won't be all that great in bright light. It's also not all that necessary in bright light and I am not sure I will ever use it. Compared to the Trijicon H reticle the center dot on the PA is smaller. I actually like that. The outer circle is larger and thicker than the Trijicon is. While they are not to scale you can see this if you look at the images of the two reticles I posted earlier. When I get a minute I may make an image of them scaled evenly. Of course they are only comparable at 3.5x (what the Trijicon is) but the PA's ranging is only good at 6x. I am happy with the reticle though even if it isn't 7.62 specific it's close enough. It will also work at closer range for my purposes at lower magnifications without the ranging ability. They do include some 7.62 ranging info in the instructions. I also think the off position between each brightness position is a nice touch. It sure beats having to go 6 clicks to off.

Clarity seems better than I expected to be honest. I really want to wait for a sunny day before I say too much on that though. I also want to put it side by side with some other optics in good light and I just haven't had that ability. Like I said though, my initial impression looking through it at the woods out back was very positive.

Overall that's my basic initial impression... very positive. I have a few concerns in that PA doesn't spec it as being gas filled but it is fully multi-coated and waterproof so only time will tell if it has issues with fogging or anything like that. The same is true with holding zero over time so we'll just have to see how it does range trip to range trip. Step one though is range trip one...

 

[bigfutz]

Here's another entry into the 1-6x arena:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/994102 ... icle-matte

BSA Tactical Multi-Gun Rifle Scope 30mm Tube 1-6x 24mm Illuminated EZ-.223 Ballistic Reticle Matte

$149 free shipping from Midway