Now lets see if I can louse up a uspsa match

[copertop80]

Had a great time out at USSA shooting the IDPA match, didn't do too bad ( didn't do too good either) but not bad for a first match. It was suggested to me, again by Mr. Fuson, that I might be alittle more well suited for a uspsa match. He is like the fusterated shooter wisper, So I think thats where I'm gonna to explore next.

I like the idea of having less form to the shooting, just shoot it and be done, not worring about cover and dropping a mag incorrectly. probably gonna have to try 3 gun after this.

 

[ryanncass]

Ussa uspsa match is the 4th sat of every month, hope to see you there soon

 

[jtischauser]

USPSA is probably more confusing on the hit factor scoring for a beginner but the weird IDPA concealement, mag retention and tactical priority target engagement rules are tough. I know the first time I shot the practical rifle match at oli capital I got hit with a procedural or two for not slicing the pie in a target array and I didn't know what the hell pie they were talking about. It kinda pissed me off too because they weren't afraid to slap a bunch of procedurals on a first timer. Now I understand but at the time I was turned off by the sport due to the rules.

It all gets better once you have 2-3 matches under your belt. The Rules make sense and the jitters go away.

If you want to ease into 3 gun you should try the rifle match on the 4th Sunday at USSA. It will get you comfortable with the safety stuff with just one long gun. Actually they ran the pistol and rifle last match so it's almost 3 gun now too. Or just come to okc gun club next Sunday for 3 gun and we will line you out.

Bring a friend next match too.

 

[Rodshoot]

As I posted on this identical thread on OK Shooters, just wait until you draw a USPSA penalty like 3 penalties for an extra shot on the wrong target in a Virginia count stage! (extra shot, extra hit, penalty mike on the target you didn't shoot).

As a USPSA CRO who also shot NRA comp for 30 years, I took up IDPA 11 years ago and have been the IDPA match director at ITPSC for 7 years (mostly because nobody younger will take over).
IDPA has the easiest rules of any serious competition I have ever tried, and requires the least expensive equipment to compete regularly.

In addition, IDPA is the best practice for actually defending yourself on the street.
Wear concealment? OK does not allow open carry.
Use cover? Well, just tell your self the targets can shoot back. Only in USPSA and the movies can you just stand and blast in the open and not die!
Mag retention? Well, the rule made sense until the change to keep an empty mag if the slide was not locked back....PIA for the SO to monitor. You don't want to throw away ammo in a gunfight, because you don't routinely carry 5 extra mags on the street.
Limit stages to 18 rounds? Most real gunfights are less.
Provide Divisions for guns that might be carried on the street? Well, when was the last time you somebody CCL a USPSA Open Division gun?

USPSA scoring and rules are the most complicated I've had to learn, and many USPSA club matches don't follow them very well. If a shot hits a steel no-shoot on the edge and continues on to a paper shoot target, does the steel have to fall to get the no-shoot penalty? Most club ROs will say it does, but the rules say no (there is no border on a steel target).
If the shot goes through one target and then another, how do you score it? What about through a plywood barricade and then the target? Different answers to these.

I agree with Eric, try all the different competitions. Speed specialists like one type, accuracy nuts another, maybe more realistic fans another. Some, like me, shoot anything that is close enough not to need a cosigner to buy gas for the trip, or search out a match when on a trip. The only matches I don't like are the ones that use carnival stages and Bubba's made-up rules that depend on who's shooting. Club matches should follow the real rules so you don't DQ when you go somewhere else to shoot, like maybe a USPSA Level II or III.

But whatever you do, don't listen to the guy who constantly badmouths the other guy's preference in legitimate shooting disciplines. In KY, they had PPC and Bullseye matches, and the range owners mostly would not allow USPSA matches "because they're too dangerous".
In OK, IDPA bashing by people who have never tried it (or maybe once) is a common sport; we have one at ITPSC who harasses me at USPSA matches about IDPA when I am shooting USPSA. Someday I may tell him I actually prefer ICORE and PPC, in which I am higher ranked than in either IDPA or USPSA......... Naw, then I'd have to explain what PPC is.

 

[copertop80]

I'm not complaining I need to bone up on my rules and procedures, I had a blast even if I did finish almost or just straight dead last

 

[Rodshoot]

I'm not complaining I need to bone up on my rules and procedures, I had a blast even if I did finish almost or just straight dead last

I know you're just learning, not complaining. You will run into the type I mentioned before long, just ignore them...
As to your scores in your first dozen matches, fuggetaboutit! The range owner's wife beat me the first several months I shot USPSA! I went to RO school to learn the scoring system so I could understand why it was better to shoot the edges quickly with a .45 than slowly and carefully shoot all A's with a .38. Now I'm still trying to combine "quicker" and "A's" in USPSA Production. :blink:

 

[jtischauser]

Well said Rod. Shoot them all if you have the opportunity and decide for yourself.

Now what is PPC and which clubs host it?

We really need to push to get an IDPA club in OKC. Maybe Burk will get one started for us at Heartland Outdoors on Monday nights.

 

[Burk Cornelius]

We really need to push to get an IDPA club in OKC. Maybe Burk will get one started for us at Heartland Outdoors on Monday nights.

I absolutely would love to do that.

Rod, Does a match have to be a sanctioned by IDPA to call it an IDPA match? Can they only be put on by sanctioned Clubs?

 

[Jefpainthorse]

I absolutely would love to do that.

Rod, Does a match have to be a sanctioned by IDPA to call it an IDPA match? Can they only be put on by sanctioned Clubs?

I'd shoot that .... I like "tactical" shooting. I love what I have been doing... but I am starting to loose the impulse to bury my self in the blacktop when the gun is drawn.

 

[jtischauser]

IDPA isn't gonna force you to get to the ground but it will penalize you if you get to far out from behind a piece of cardboard to shoot.

 

[Jefpainthorse]

I am loosing my impulse to find brick and block and have been dreaming of using cardboard and blue tarps as "cover" lately.

Can I get meds for this?

I guess that's the fine line we tread ... training, gaming, and self defense use similar skills ... it's easy to blur the line with bad habits

 

[copertop80]

I'm not really one of those "cover" type guys anyway, most likely the result of too much airsoft play. I'm kinda the superior firepower, walk twards the threat blasting. I understand that's not real life, but if I'm walking twards a threat ripping round after round of .45 acp said threat is going to be the one looking for cover.

 

[Rodshoot]

Rod, Does a match have to be a sanctioned by IDPA to call it an IDPA match? Can they only be put on by sanctioned Clubs?

All you need to start an IDPA club is some trained SOs and the club resistration fee of $100 first year. Yiou don't have to pay HQ for classifiers like in USPSA. http://www.idpa.com/member_info.asp

There are 2 dangers is running a club match and calling it IDPA.
1. You can't do any legal classifiers or register new IDPA members. HQ IDPA won't help you.
2. Without trained SOs, it rapidly turns into Bubba'a son of IPSC jungle rules.

Contact Jack O. for getting an SO class; he recently did one for the club at Weatherford. I'm glad they got the class and registered the club; that's the right way to do it.

As with USPSA, the real talent is designing interesting stages that follow the rules, then running the match according to the rules.
It is really unfair to the shooters to run club matches with bastard rules and carnival stages, because if they go to a higher level match, they are probably going to do poorly or even DQ.

 

[Burk Cornelius]

All you need to start an IDPA club is some trained SOs and the club resistration fee of $100 first year. Yiou don't have to pay HQ for classifiers like in USPSA. http://www.idpa.com/member_info.asp

There are 2 dangers is running a club match and calling it IDPA.
1. You can't do any legal classifiers or register new IDPA members. HQ IDPA won't help you.
2. Without trained SOs, it rapidly turns into Bubba'a son of IPSC jungle rules.

Contact Jack O. for getting an SO class; he recently did one for the club at Weatherford. I'm glad they got the class and registered the club; that's the right way to do it.

As with USPSA, the real talent is designing interesting stages that follow the rules, then running the match according to the rules.
It is really unfair to the shooters to run club matches with bastard rules and carnival stages, because if they go to a higher level match, they are probably going to do poorly or even DQ.

Good advice, thanks Rod. Maybe you could spend a couple minutes on the phone sometime with a fellow Altusan (me) and answer a few questions?

 

[Rodshoot]

Good advice, thanks Rod. Maybe you could spend a couple minutes on the phone sometime with a fellow Altusan (me) and answer a few questions?

Send me an email: best way to reach me.

 

[Rodshoot]

Well said Rod. Shoot them all if you have the opportunity and decide for yourself.

Now what is PPC and which clubs host it?

What is PPC?
PPC is the acronym for Practical Pistol Course. This shooting discipline evolved from police firearm training into a sport enjoyed by civilians as well as law enforcement officers. PPC shooting involves shooting at targets from different distances, under different time constraints and from a variety of shooting positions. In PPC, the shooter does not walk or run with the firearm. Typically, Smith & Wesson revolvers are used for PPC shooting. The focus is on accuracy within a defined time allotment.


The distance the shooter is from the target varies from 7 to 15 to 25 to 50 metres.


The time constraints the shooter faces in firing on the target vary from 12 rounds fired in 20 seconds to 24 rounds fired in two minutes and 45 seconds.


The various shooting positions are; kneeling, prone, point shoulder, shooting around a barricade (strong hand & weak hand) and sitting.


Course of Fire
A full "1500" PPC course of fire involves firing a total of 150 rounds of ammunition on 6 "B27" (paper or cardboard body silhouette) targets. The course of fire involves six matches outlined as follows;

Match 1
12 rounds in 20 seconds Point Shoulder From 7 metres


12 rounds in 20 seconds Point Shoulder From 15 metres

Match 2

18 rounds in 90 seconds Kneeling, left barricade, right barricade From 25 metres

Match 3

24 rounds in 2 minutes,45 seconds Sitting, prone, left barricade, right barricade from 50 metres

Match 4

12 rounds in 30 seconds point shoulder from 25 metres


repeat

Match 5A

12 rounds in 20 seconds Point shoulder from 7 metre line


18 rounds in 90 seconds kneeling, left barricade, right barricade from 25 metres

Match 5B

24 rounds in 2 minutes, 45 seconds sitting, prone, left barricade, right barricade from 25 metres


6 rounds in 12 seconds point shoulder from 25 metres


Classifications
PPC Shooters are classified based on their proven shooting ability; the classifications and the corresponding average score (perfect score = 1500) required to achieve the classification are as follows;

PPC Classification Marksman 1279 or less
Sharpshooter 1280 to 1379
Expert 1380 to 1439
Master 1440 to 1459
Distinguished Master 1460 to 1479
Grand Master 1480 to 1500



Here's a link to the KY Club where I shot PPC; it shows pictures of the targets and people shooting the turning targets in a club match. Everything is par time.Club matches are shorter than the full 1500 match, typically.
http://www.jprpc.net/disciplines/ppc.htm
It's a popular sport east of the Mississippi and in several other countries, but if you want to see it in OK, you have to go to a police match.
I never heard of USPSA until I came to OK, and I went to college at the University of Washington, and knew people who lived in Sedro Wooley, WA, where USPSA HQ is located.

 

[LuckyDucky]

I like IDPA scoring better than USPSA but IDPA has some stupid rules. The mag retention rules are stupid and having to wear concealment. In real life, does everyone concealed carry wearing a shooting vest and 3-4 magazines on their belt? No?

I dislike the major/minor part of USPSA because there's really no distinction to be made. If you want to win, you shoot major. End of story. It's like Rod said, you get all C hits shooting major and beat somebody shooting minor who gets A hits but slower.

I prefer USPSA because it's more of a sport. I want to run and gun without worrying so much about procedural errors. I'm not out there to play cops and robbers. I'm out there to have a good time while working on shooting quickly and accurately.

 

[jtischauser]

I Iike anything that requires me to shoot something at something else. If I have to choose between different types of shooting something or different types of something to shoot at I usually choose the something that requires shooting more of something more often.

 

[LuckyDucky]

I Iike anything that requires me to shoot something at something else. If I have to choose between different types of shooting something or different types of something to shoot at I usually choose the something that requires shooting more of something more often.

Haha me too. Definitely me too.

 

[Burk Cornelius]

I like IDPA scoring better than USPSA but IDPA has some stupid rules. The mag retention rules are stupid and having to wear concealment. In real life, does everyone concealed carry wearing a shooting vest and 3-4 magazines on their belt? No?

I dislike the major/minor part of USPSA because there's really no distinction to be made. If you want to win, you shoot major. End of story. It's like Rod said, you get all C hits shooting major and beat somebody shooting minor who gets A hits but slower.

I prefer USPSA because it's more of a sport. I want to run and gun without worrying so much about procedural errors. I'm not out there to play cops and robbers. I'm out there to have a good time while working on shooting quickly and accurately.

This is exactly why we live in such a great country. Everyone can shoot whatever kind of match they want for whatever reason they want.

Which is probably why IDPA came about. Not everyone wants to "run and gun"