CWP for long gun purchase

[Avtomat-Acolyte]

I know "caveat emptor" reigns supreme and a seller or buyer can do whatever they want as long as both parties want...

...but...

... what drives a person to demand a CWP when they're selling a rifle or shotgun? Hell, even a handgun, for that matter. If this was NC I could understand the "show me your papers" with regards to the CWP/CCW since they're required to have a pistol purchase permit (or CWP/CCW permit) for any exchange of handguns, but this isn't NC.

I realize that it's probably just to placate their worries about potentially selling it to a convicted felon but it is annoying, nonetheless, to see gun enthusiasts, in the middle of a war on our hobby, sport, lifeline, insurance policy, et al. demanding arbitrary and capricious UNNECESSARY extra steps for someone trying to exercise their Civil Rights.

Even to the most casual Constitutional scholar it should be self-evident that every single anti-gun, or anti-weapon, law is unConstitutional and therefore illegal. To see people that purport to be "gun people" further encumber the acquisition of guns with their own, personal, infringements makes me cringe and question their patriotism and suspect that they're not a "gun person", but, rather just some random person that happens to own a gun and not give a elephant dung about the 2nd Amendment, Freedom or their fellow Man.

 

[crown]

I believe every law abiding citizen should be allowed to buy what ever they want, and I strongly believe in our right to bear arms. But I too prefer a CWP on a face to face. I feel this way the State has done some background check and that I am not selling my gun to a felon or mentally unstable person. Also, if the gun I am selling is used to commit a crime, at least I tried to make sure I sold it to a responsible citizen.

 

[dreamerofdreams]

I realize that it's probably just to placate their worries about potentially selling it to a convicted felon but it is annoying, nonetheless, to see gun enthusiasts, in the middle of a war on our hobby, sport, lifeline, insurance policy, et al. demanding arbitrary and capricious UNNECESSARY extra steps for someone trying to exercise their Civil Rights.

I don't believe in CWPs. I got into shooting in a constitutional carry state.

That said, if I am selling to a stranger, I want to see a CWP, military ID, something along those lines. Because I also have the right to only sell to people I choose to.

 

[Midnight Raver]

Kudos to crown and dreamerofdreams, their personal feelings and policies pertaining to ANY sales of firearms shows RESPONSIBLE gun ownership. This kind of mentality and behavior conveys what gun control advocates and anti gun protesters need to really know about their "enemies". Responsible law abiding citizens are gun owners too- the country needs to know this so that they are not penalized and victimized due to the irresponsible, the outlaws, and of course the full blown criminals or psychos here as well.

 

[crown]

Well said.

 

[Rosea Carpa]

Well said.

+1 on that

 

[armaborealis]

My policy for face to face -- I'm ok with any of these three options.

Option A: We go through a FFL. I'll split the cost, even, assuming its reasonable and conveniently located, or...
Option B: I write out a bill of sale for my personal records including your driver's license (or other official ID) number and info, or...
Option C: You show me some sort of proof of background check such as a CWP, FFL03, teaching license/credentials, military ID, etc.

An ATF officer recently lied on the 4473 then sold the handgun to "someone" and doesn't recall who. It then showed up at a murder scene in Mexico. He'll get away with it because he's an ATF agent. I'd prefer to be able to explain who "someone" was if that gun is later found at a crime scene and I'm the last person it traces to off of the 4473.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-34222_162-57560107-10391739/atf-agents-personal-weapon-found-at-mexican-beauty-queen-cartel-crime-scene/?tag=socsh

I think I've established myself as pretty strongly pro-2A. However, I realize that there are crazy people and felons in our society who know how to make eye contact, take showers, wear a polo shirt, and otherwise look like decent members of society. I don't want to sell a gun to a lunatic or a violent ex-con.

 

[Dave29461]

Tell 'em like it is Raver. +1

 

[Midnight Raver]

I tell it like it is I guess due to having been through it so to speak...

I myself had to pass in a signed and notarized affidavit pertaining to my Ruger 10/22 I had sold to a Gun Store up here in the mid 1980s. This was after my wife and I applied for firearms licenses. The Police came to my door at first to ask about it while serving me papers saying I was turned down. I told them it had been out of my hands for over 20 years, as it was 2007 at the time. You would think that selling a firearm to a gun store would be a no brainer, right? Well, they were gone from that location a couple of years or so after then. They didn't file their paperwork on their end so I was the one who had it last- Tag, I'm it! However, the licensing officer thanked me for the best affidavit involving previous firearm location she had ever seen and felt bad about me turned down(well, not that much- another story).

Up here the laws are pretty strict but vary widely from town to city- like playing hopscotch to obey the laws. Since I was a teenager, I had what is known as an FID card which allowed you to have rifles and/or shotguns. They used to be a lifelong card up until 1998 when the Demokrats changed legislation on it to 5 year periods. At the time since I had no firearms I did not think I would ever need one again. That is, until my wife and I decided to take the Firearms Safety Certificate class and get into shooting together. While she was granted her class A I was served with those papers- guess they didn't like me here in Dodge City due to complications from earlier in life. I was never convicted of anything and never had my FID revoked earlier but my past still was used against me. I should have contested it right away but lawers cost money.

Some day I hope to get out of Dodge and be in a better place to perhaps get my own firearms again if I so wish. In the meantime I go with my wife to the range when we can afford it and have fun with "her" pistols. This is one of the main reasons I was brought in to help out here. Frost knows I am a responsible law abiding citizen who knows what it is really like in our world. I've see the good sides and the bad sides of firearms as well(was mistaken for a pheasant during bird hunting season- at least I didn't shoot back after I was hit). I see things much clearer from many experiences that the opposition turns their closed eyes and minds away from. If there is any way I can help firearms owners to keep their own and help prevent their loss I shall do so in any and every way possible.

Hell, I knew more about firearms from building models and studying history before I was even 10 years old than most of these politicians and lawmakers out there today- even the ones older than me!!!

 

[biganimal]

just playing the devil's advocate here......................... having a CWP or military ID is going to stop a crime or the buyer committing a crime, HOW???
these forms of id will not curtail crime any better than a state issued driver's license. I was a FFL holder in NY for almost twenty years and I have sold many a gun. I sold a handgun to a person that got a "PROCEED" on a NICS check and eight days later he shot his wife, (she survived). He also had a NY state pistol permit meaning he had been cleared by the state, local law enforcement, & the FBI as well as state mental health dept. My policy then was to run a NICS even if the buyer held a permit. Just for my own protection.

 

[Midnight Raver]

True enough, but you yourself also displayed responsible gun ownership and sales practices. What more can you ask of law abiding citizens. Perhaps all firearms sales other than at stores should take place at the local law enforcement establishments? Require other witnesses as well, like marriages too? Ok then, so be it. Consider yourselves lucky and privileged to not to have to abide by laws on a state, county, city, and town level such as up here. Unlike New Hampshire that residents can walk in and buy anything sold with no questions asked for the most part, here almost EVERYTHING firearms related goes through to the FBI.

I'm surprised they don't run checks on high capacity bottles of cleaning solutions and lubricants- or high volume target packs for that matter. :roll:

 

[Lupinus]

For me, it's to cover my own posterior.

If I'm shown a valid CWP, I know they are legal to won a firearm.

Does it guarantee that the buyer wont use it for a crime? Or course not, nothing will do that. But it does mean I know I'm not providing a felon or some such with a firearm, and thus not inviting the legal troubles associated with such.

Now, whether I agree that that should be my worry is another story. I don't personally care that a buyer has any one of a host of idiotic things keeping him from owning a firearm. But that feds do, and I have no interest in getting myself in to legal hot water when there are methods available to keep that from happening.