Like GT said, quit moving your upper body so much & pick your arm up. When you "attack" the gun, dont just grab it & pull it out, push your hand into the sweet spot like you're about to rip the holster off of your belt. BE AGRESSIVE!!!!
Critique my in home practice
- Thread starter taymoor
- Start date
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- breaking bad habits
uscbigdawg
Well-Known Fanatic
Taymoor,
On the upper body movement, what often works for folks that I help is to use a mirror so that you can see what you're doing. Don't get absorbed into using one, but drawing facing and perpendicular to it so you can see what you're doing and limit that movement will help.
Break down your drills since you're starting out. Here's a routine:
1 - With full grip acquired, gun at low ready, bring the gun up and present to the target. Do that about 100 times until you can do it perfect and the sights are perfectly aligned on your target (dot on the wall, light switches, etc. are good for this).
2 - Strong hand gripping the pistol, weak hand off, acquire grip and present the gun to the target. Again, do this until sights are perfect.
3 - Pistol resting in the palm of the weak hand. Acquire the pistol with the strong hand, grip and present. Yep...do it 'til it's perfect.
4 - Pistol on the table. Pick it up and acquire your grip and present 'til sights are perfect.
If you need a stamp of approval, this is what Brian Enos did when he was starting out.
To speed the draw, the best advice I got was to simply....GO FASTER! Like Jesse was saying, you want to initiate the draw at the beginning of the tone of the timer. If you wait 'til the timer has completely beeped, you're already down at least 0.5 seconds. A good way to work on speeding up reaction time to an audible start signal is at the range. Set your timer to random start. Pistol load and gun up on target. Fire a round at the first tone you hear. Max Michel says, "listen for the 'B' in BEEP".
Getting the Burkett videos are a great resource for pistol technique and practice tips, but nothing will shorten the learning curve than attending a class from one of the top shooters. Max and Travis are pretty affordable. You have Strader in your area. Matt Burkett and Mike Voigt are AWESOME to train with and Dave Re would be another person I can recommend.
Rich
On the upper body movement, what often works for folks that I help is to use a mirror so that you can see what you're doing. Don't get absorbed into using one, but drawing facing and perpendicular to it so you can see what you're doing and limit that movement will help.
Break down your drills since you're starting out. Here's a routine:
1 - With full grip acquired, gun at low ready, bring the gun up and present to the target. Do that about 100 times until you can do it perfect and the sights are perfectly aligned on your target (dot on the wall, light switches, etc. are good for this).
2 - Strong hand gripping the pistol, weak hand off, acquire grip and present the gun to the target. Again, do this until sights are perfect.
3 - Pistol resting in the palm of the weak hand. Acquire the pistol with the strong hand, grip and present. Yep...do it 'til it's perfect.
4 - Pistol on the table. Pick it up and acquire your grip and present 'til sights are perfect.
If you need a stamp of approval, this is what Brian Enos did when he was starting out.
To speed the draw, the best advice I got was to simply....GO FASTER! Like Jesse was saying, you want to initiate the draw at the beginning of the tone of the timer. If you wait 'til the timer has completely beeped, you're already down at least 0.5 seconds. A good way to work on speeding up reaction time to an audible start signal is at the range. Set your timer to random start. Pistol load and gun up on target. Fire a round at the first tone you hear. Max Michel says, "listen for the 'B' in BEEP".
Getting the Burkett videos are a great resource for pistol technique and practice tips, but nothing will shorten the learning curve than attending a class from one of the top shooters. Max and Travis are pretty affordable. You have Strader in your area. Matt Burkett and Mike Voigt are AWESOME to train with and Dave Re would be another person I can recommend.
Rich
LuckyDucky
Well-Known Fanatic
I'm going to download that music, bring a boombox, and play it while you run your stages.
Looks like the magnamags work!
EricMartin
Fanatic
Like Wall, be agressive and up you gun in front of you eyes for looking magwell. Your draw is good just again again again.
Eric
Eric
KurtM
Well-Known Fanatic
I'll be back next week for a little while, and I CAN correct all the malodies you have...a lot of crap has been slung here, and if you want to get better let me know. I figure about a 12 pack of Negro Modelo should get you on the right track! KurtM
Like I told someonwe once........(Mr. Cat!!!) If you haven't paid in beer...you haven't had professional training! :85:
Like I told someonwe once........(Mr. Cat!!!) If you haven't paid in beer...you haven't had professional training! :85:
brandt9913
Well-Known Fanatic
It has become obvious that I need to bring you a keg of Guiness when I complete my AR.
bigbrowndog
Red Neck Tactical
Way too much time is wasted trying to get a fast draw????? how fast is fast??? on a target 7yards away sub 1sec. on a target 15yards away sub 1sec.??? is it steel or paper is a C hit ok or do you need an A??
all these things affect what "we" call draw speed which in effect is not draw speed but first shot speed, so because all these things change first shot speed you cannot effectively replicate it in practice, all you can do is refine all the motions needed to get the gun on target, the time needed to break the shot will be different depending on the parameters of the shot.
In the end, you may save .3 of a second on a "fast" draw!!!!! so what,...... thats one draw, maybe 10-12 in a match, so thats 3-4 seconds saved in a match!!!!! thats a fumbled reload, or a an extra shot on a target. there are much more valuable and important things to work on than first shot.
just a thought.
trapr
all these things affect what "we" call draw speed which in effect is not draw speed but first shot speed, so because all these things change first shot speed you cannot effectively replicate it in practice, all you can do is refine all the motions needed to get the gun on target, the time needed to break the shot will be different depending on the parameters of the shot.
In the end, you may save .3 of a second on a "fast" draw!!!!! so what,...... thats one draw, maybe 10-12 in a match, so thats 3-4 seconds saved in a match!!!!! thats a fumbled reload, or a an extra shot on a target. there are much more valuable and important things to work on than first shot.
just a thought.
trapr
taymoor
Skilled Lover
ouch. now my head hurts. I never thought of it like that. I know that 3 or 4 seconds really doesn't make a difference at my skill level, but what about for an A shooter or M, GM?
I think that Robusto may have put it best for me when he said "Slow the **** down and focus on all A's Motherfucker" or maybe that was me - either way, I need to slow down and get my hits and as Chris "Sandman" Andersen said - "Speed will come".
drmitchgibson
The white Morgan Freeman
Only your arms should be moving. I had to move my holster as low as I could mount it (Blade-Tech w/ Tech-Lok) to get an advantageous holster location. My hand was having to travel a full twelve inches from a relaxed position to the grip of the gun when it was mounted in the standard position, and I was doing a shoulder-shuffle/upper body lean to get the gun out. Now it's 1-1/2" lower, but I can draw at any speed without moving anything but my arms. I don't see myself shooting Production, since it's lame, so I'll probably go for the lowest reasonable holster position in the future.
bigbrowndog
Red Neck Tactical
its worth refining the movement, but do not get hung up on speed, and yes your body should be in the position that it needs to be to fire the shot, and only your arms should move, to bring the gun up to your eye level.
So how many stages will you shoot that do not require movement to fire the first shot???
trapr
So how many stages will you shoot that do not require movement to fire the first shot???
trapr
I think you're right about some people focusing on it too much (kind of like splits), but seems to me from his vid that he has an easy 0.3 to trim off before he even has the gun out of the holster. Why start out behind?
I usually draw around 1.2 or 1.3 assuming there's no movement, but occasionally there's some time to be gained, especially on short stages w/ high round counts, you take it wherever you can get it (shameless youtube plug):
I don't like dropped holsters. You have to do more work (literally) to get the gun up and out. However, lots of shooters like mi amigo 'Mr. Priceless' use them and are super fast. Everybody's different, and there's more than one way to do everything. Remember that nobody can tell you the right answer all the time. At the end of the day you have to try different things and decide for yourself.
drmitchgibson
The white Morgan Freeman
I have long arms. Probably six or more inches of reach advantage that a boxer would kill for. That said, the butt of my gun still sits a bit above my belt-line, almost exactly an inch. I used Cyrwus' YouTube performance art for a reference on position of holster to hand position.
taymoor
Skilled Lover
LINK?
And Mike, were you supposed to take those first two shots one-handed, or are you just a bad ass, or was it actually more efficient to do so for such close targets?
drmitchgibson
The white Morgan Freeman
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-iRwGe81Wg
His hand is at the bottom of the holster at every start. There are more videos, just look up his name. It's unique, so it doesn't bring up a bunch of bullshit.
His hand is at the bottom of the holster at every start. There are more videos, just look up his name. It's unique, so it doesn't bring up a bunch of bullshit.
jtischauser
I'm addicted to kicking ass
You won't win or lose a match with sub one second draws or reloads but they will get you some lovin' from the ladies after the match. If u can't do them expect wedgies and noogies from the varsity shooters on the bus ride home.
I mean really, what are u gonna put on your YouTube channel to make you look like a badass if u can't do fast draws and reloads?
On the draw and shoot from the hip thing, I can consistently draw and hit a 7 yard full size popper in .7-.8 with a standard draw. I can hit that same popper at about a 50% rate under .5. If it's close and u know you can hit it faster why not shoot from the hip?
I mean really, what are u gonna put on your YouTube channel to make you look like a badass if u can't do fast draws and reloads?
On the draw and shoot from the hip thing, I can consistently draw and hit a 7 yard full size popper in .7-.8 with a standard draw. I can hit that same popper at about a 50% rate under .5. If it's close and u know you can hit it faster why not shoot from the hip?
bigbrowndog
Red Neck Tactical
The distance your hand has to move to initiate the draw and bring the gun up to eye level never changes, where it picks up the gun is irrelevant. except that you are lifting more weight maybe 2" more??? if your hand travels 12" to grab the gun and 18" more to get it to eye level, what have you "really" gained by grabbing the gun at 10" and then traveling 20" to get to eye level??
Its not so much starting out behind, as much as its placing practice where you will see the MOST gains., and the draw isn't it. Being accurate, smooth in motion, and reliable equipment, will provide more benefit than shaving .5 off of a 2 second first shot. if we are only talking about looking fast, then please by all means continue with that endeavor.
trapr
Its not so much starting out behind, as much as its placing practice where you will see the MOST gains., and the draw isn't it. Being accurate, smooth in motion, and reliable equipment, will provide more benefit than shaving .5 off of a 2 second first shot. if we are only talking about looking fast, then please by all means continue with that endeavor.
trapr
drmitchgibson
The white Morgan Freeman
I just mentioned things because he's leaning over and tipping his shoulder upwards while drawing, and excess movement is wasted movement. I wonder if anyone did a study to determine desirable angles for this motion.
KurtM
Well-Known Fanatic
Well "he" is now executing draws in the 1.1-1.2 range with great accuracy and is now doing a nice controled pair at 7 yards in 1.34 with both A zone hits. He also did a nice little El Presidente drill in 7.63 seconds with 11 As and 1 C. His shooting cadence is good and trigger control even better. He now has several drills to accomplish and doesn't move around anymore. He does need new base pads for the Glock mags and a new 9mm ejector for his "gat" but outside of that he is on his way, and the Negro Modelo is cooling in my shop. Thanks Taymore! KurtM
