Tuflehundon
Cyrwus Says I'm Cool
Some classifiers will also play to your strengths, and some will not. I have 4 (different divisions) that are A or B level, when I'm a C shooter. But I also have some that are D and low D's
classifier score affect on overall match
- Thread starter Troy
- Start date
jtischauser
I'm addicted to kicking ass
You don't have to hit all alphas but you definitely won't win unless you're maximizing alpha count.slemmo said:
I too prefer to shoot faster then that which is why I shoot mostly 3-gun which doesn't score alphas.
jtischauser
I'm addicted to kicking ass
Do you seriously know somebody who stays in D or C class so they can win a plaque every year at an Area match? It's not like prizes are substantial enough at any USPSA match ive been to to make it worth doing.Tuflehundon (Rob Gee) said:
Typically the guys I see placing at higher levels then their classifications are guys that are getting better faster then the classification system can keep up. Eventually they will go shoot 65, 75 or 85% of the area match winner and get their bump to the next highest classification.
I shoot major pf for pistol, so Cs doesn't really matter all that much. I shot a stage at a match this winter and shot 20 As of 20 shots, And everyone was going....come on!....If you're shooting all As your not going fast enough!Jesse Tischauser said:
I think it's a bit misunderstood that comstock scoring kills speed in IPSC rifle minor as well, typically you'll see the top guys shoot about 70-80% As at a match, and occasionally stages are won even if shooting a mike. Speed is king. And making up bad shots gets to be second nature, make up shots will often be like triple tapping.
jtischauser
I'm addicted to kicking ass
You gotta shoot 90-95% of the stage points to win over here in USPSA. So saying C's don't matter is like saying I dont want overall.slemmo said:
I've yet to see a stage where shooting mast enough to take a mike will still get you a stage win. Either you're shooting against shitty shooters or the hit factors are upwards of 30-50.
You can shoot 90-95% stage points with a few Cs. I'm just saying it's not necessary to be preoccupied with shooting only As, at least not when shooting major pf. You're just dropping one point for every C. So in a 10hf stage when every second is worth 10 points. It's fairly obvious that making up a C is not worth the time. And that the guy shooting a few Cs just a bit faster is going to win.
At our national rifle championship last year one stage was won with a mike, it was a 10 hf stage, and the guy shot it just a couple seconds faster than the rest of us, which was just enough. He didn't win the match though. It's uncommon, but it can be done. And no, going over your abilities is not worth it in the long run. I'm not advising it as a general match strategy
The reason I think why minor scoring is less of an issue in rifle compared to pistol is just because of the sheer speed of the shooting. Typically the best rifle guys are not shooting higher alpha % than the best USPSA/IPSC pistol shooters, even when the pistol guys are scoring major, but obviously if you're shooting production division when the pace is slower. points are a lot more important. I regularely shoot against GM level pistol guys and the best rifle shooters in the world, so I dont think I'm completely off in my observations.
At our national rifle championship last year one stage was won with a mike, it was a 10 hf stage, and the guy shot it just a couple seconds faster than the rest of us, which was just enough. He didn't win the match though. It's uncommon, but it can be done. And no, going over your abilities is not worth it in the long run. I'm not advising it as a general match strategy
The reason I think why minor scoring is less of an issue in rifle compared to pistol is just because of the sheer speed of the shooting. Typically the best rifle guys are not shooting higher alpha % than the best USPSA/IPSC pistol shooters, even when the pistol guys are scoring major, but obviously if you're shooting production division when the pace is slower. points are a lot more important. I regularely shoot against GM level pistol guys and the best rifle shooters in the world, so I dont think I'm completely off in my observations.
Tuflehundon
Cyrwus Says I'm Cool
It's not something I see all the time, but it is something I have seen. But I don't so much see it year after year. They eventually shoot enough non local matches that they get bumped.Jesse Tischauser said:
I see it about as much as I see guys re shoot a classifier 10 times to get the higher classification they want. So it goes both ways. Anyone who have been to enough big matches has seen a paper GM or 2.
DD78
Well-Known Fanatic
I shot in my first USPSA match a couple weeks ago, and aside from it being a blast, the classifier stuff initially confused me. We had one in our match and I didn't do well on it at all mainly because I tried to shoot it fast and didn't know it was a classifier.
The one thing I did notice was that in our squad there were a couple guys who looked like they weren't having a good time at all. When I asked my buddy about it, he said that some people just focus on their ranking. I, as well as most everyone else looked to be having a blast. Obviously being rated higher is always something to strive for, but when anything gets to where it's not fun any longer, why keep doing it?
I have another match coming up this Sunday, which will have a classifier so I'll make sure to concentrate a bit more on that one, especially if it's a low HF.
I'll need to do a bit more reading on strategy because I'm still a bit unclear on that part of the game.
I imagine when I finally do get a classification, I'll probably be a D, which is fine. It'll give me something to work towards.
The one thing I did read about was how some people sandbag so that they can win at the bigger matches. That seems counterintuitive because after you win, doesn't your classification go up anyway? lol
The one thing I did notice was that in our squad there were a couple guys who looked like they weren't having a good time at all. When I asked my buddy about it, he said that some people just focus on their ranking. I, as well as most everyone else looked to be having a blast. Obviously being rated higher is always something to strive for, but when anything gets to where it's not fun any longer, why keep doing it?
I have another match coming up this Sunday, which will have a classifier so I'll make sure to concentrate a bit more on that one, especially if it's a low HF.
I'll need to do a bit more reading on strategy because I'm still a bit unclear on that part of the game.
I imagine when I finally do get a classification, I'll probably be a D, which is fine. It'll give me something to work towards.
The one thing I did read about was how some people sandbag so that they can win at the bigger matches. That seems counterintuitive because after you win, doesn't your classification go up anyway? lol
jtischauser
I'm addicted to kicking ass
Sorry you're giving bad advice to mid level shooters. You should always be preoccupied with shooting Alphas. Because some of those alphas end up as Charlie's which won't kill you but if you're only shooting to get Charlie's you'll end up with more Deltas which is terrible.slemmo said:
A couple seconds faster on a 10 HF stage is huge! If the talent level is high amongall competitors are you won't see anyone able to shoot a 10 HF stage 10-20% faster then anyone else and if they do the rest of the field will be good enough to shoot it clean and beat you with points.slemmo said:At our national rifle championship last year one stage was won with a mike, it was a 10 hf stage, and the guy shot it just a couple seconds faster than the rest of us, which was just enough. He didn't win the match though. It's uncommon, but it can be done. And no, going over your abilities is not worth it in the long run. I'm not advising it as a general match strategy
The reason I think why minor scoring is less of an issue in rifle compared to pistol is just because of the sheer speed of the shooting. Typically the best rifle guys are not shooting higher alpha % than the best USPSA/IPSC pistol shooters, even when the pistol guys are scoring major, but obviously if you're shooting production division when the pace is slower. points are a lot more important. I regularely shoot against GM level pistol guys and the best rifle shooters in the world, so I dont think I'm completely off in my observations.
Moral of the story is like Josh said you've got to be shooting as many points as you can which means always shooting for alphas all while doing it as fast as your abilities will allow you to do so.
technetium-99m
Mighty Righty
With iron sighted major guns A/C on every target is like borderline acceptable. One 2 alpha for 2 alpha charlies is sonething like 93% of the target points. Not true in open though.
technetium-99m
Mighty Righty
Of course penalties suck as do deltas.
Tuflehundon
Cyrwus Says I'm Cool
If you are new, I wouldn't even worry about classifiers yet. Just shoot them to have fun. I shot USPSA for 6 months before I even joined USPSA and got classified. You might be surprised at how much you will improve very quickly in the beginning. You'll learn the rules better, and learn stage breakdown.DD78 said:
Biggest thing in the beginning for me was to learn my strengths and weaknesses. Then play to the strengths, and train away the weaknesses.
I helped set up a stages a lot when I first started. I live really close to the range and work from home, so I could get there earlier than most. I was horrible at plate racks. So I would ask the guy planning the stages I helped with to put plate racks in as often as I could. And I would stay after the match as we would do nothing but shoot the plate rack. Now they are pretty easy for me.
Maybe we're saying the same thing in different ways, being preoccupied with shooting alphas in my head is making up every shot you think is not an alpha, which might not be a good idea. Obviously you'll strive to make every shot an alpha, but there's a limit to where you have to let go a bit.Jesse Tischauser said:
10-20% in a 10hf stage is a good margin, but it's not a freak occurence.........just a bit of digging.....stage 14 at IPSC world shoot 2014 open division. almost 2 second difference between number 1 and 2, exact same points shot.
The Stage I'm talking about was a long course, rifle match, one guy shoots it in high 19, the rest in 23 and more.
Troy
Well-Known Fanatic
I want out of C class, but not at the expense of possible mike or no-shoot that can effect my over all score.
Well, when I started shooting, I started with being scared as hell of shooting enything else than alphas. I could shoot a decent match, but my speed was holding me down. Then I figured, ok, I have to go faster which resulted in shooting alpha charlie on every damn target of the matches. With practice you learn to shoot at your level. If you're shooting mikes and no-shoots your going too fast. If you shoot an odd C here and there, and rarely any Ds you're fairly well off.
High level shooters knows by looking at a stage how many seconds they're going to shoot it at, and about how many points they're going to drop, as in how many Cs they are likely to shoot at the speed with which they will get the highest HF for the stage.
High level shooters knows by looking at a stage how many seconds they're going to shoot it at, and about how many points they're going to drop, as in how many Cs they are likely to shoot at the speed with which they will get the highest HF for the stage.
mike cyrwus
.223
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2010
- Messages
- 4,827
me too.R.Pullicar.jr said:
one really has to get to know the way HF scoring works.
I tell anyone that listens to play around with your match results , see what turning 5 alphas into 5 charlies does to your score. see what dropping zero points does to your score, keeping your same time.
I used to spend hours doing this on sunday mornings.
You're shooting major PF.
The stage has three metric targets; 30 points.
You shoot conservatively and get all A's in 3 seconds. That's a HF of 10.00
The next guy pushes harder and stays on the edge of his ability and shoots A/C on each target in 2 seconds.
That's a HF 13.50
Push yourself.
Shooters don't have to "Knock it out of the park" to make it out of B class...
The stage has three metric targets; 30 points.
You shoot conservatively and get all A's in 3 seconds. That's a HF of 10.00
The next guy pushes harder and stays on the edge of his ability and shoots A/C on each target in 2 seconds.
That's a HF 13.50
Push yourself.
Shooters don't have to "Knock it out of the park" to make it out of B class...
jtischauser
I'm addicted to kicking ass
Aiming for alphas doesn't always mean you'll get them but if you're not aiming for the middle of the target every time you'll sure as hell never get any A's for **** sake. It's not that difficult.
technetium-99m
Mighty Righty
I'm confused.Jesse Tischauser said:
