ltrain7281 said:
Ok, after reading what you guys have posted today, take a look at these divisions and let me know what you think.
Open-
1.Rifle- two sights- scope, red dot with or without magnifier, and offset sight, red dot or irons or what ever else.
A. Rifle mags- drums, couplers, 40-50-60 what ever, it's open, basically as long as you can carry it to the line its legal for open.
2.Pistol- red dot sight- comp, 170mm mags, no restriction on the amount of rounds just on magazine length.
Tac Ops-
1. Rifle- One sight- can be scope or red dot or red dot with a magnifier, no other sights allowed on the gun
A.- Rifle mags- 30 round mags or smaller only, can be coupled with another 30 round or smaller mag.
2. Pistol- iron sights, 140mm mags, no restriction on the amount of rounds just on magazine length.
Tac Irons-
1.Rifle- iron sights only, no other sights allowed on the gun
A. Rifle mags- 30 round mags or smaller only, can be coupled with another 30 round or smaller mag.
2. Pistol- iron sights, 140mm mags, no restrictions on the amount of rounds just on magazine length.
Everything will be scored USPSA minor, there was some comments above about what type of distances we will use for rifle. I plan on using both our 100 and 300 yard bays and also the 50 yard bay for rifle stages. We will also have some up close and personnel stages on the pistol bays with the rifle. What I would like to do is have a minimum of 6 stages per match at least 3 pistol and 3 rifle. Some of these stages may require you to use both guns some may only require one. Stages that require the use of both we will have a place setup to dump the first gun safely then transition to the next gun to finish the stage. I really don't want to have to use slings so we will set up dump table or barrels for the stages that require two guns.
Also a question on safety, what are 3GN's rules on when you dump a weapon on a table or in a barrel? Does it have to be on safety? If so, are you DQ'ed if you do not put it on safety or is it just a procedural on that stage? My personnel opinion on this is that I don't think it is quit a DQ'able offense but I do think that it is worth at least one procedural.
Like Tony mentioned the one rule that's gonna kill people is lumping red dots without a magnifier with scopes. HUGE disadvantage to only have a red dot past 50 yards versus a variable power scope.
The one rule I don't love is the rifle mag limit on Tac Ops. Simply because every mag I have in my bag has a taran tactical extension on it for 3-gun. Plus I like to shoot the long stuff prone using my coupled 40 round Pmags as a monopod. As long as it's ok to simply download the higher cap mags to 30 rounds I'm cool with it. But it would be easier to simply go with the 3GN club or regional rules for rifle and/or pistol simply because you could copy/paste those rather then write your own.
Here is a link to the 3GN club series rules.
http://3gunnation.com/club_series/rules
1.5 GROUNDING FIREARMS
1.5 a) Abandoned Firearm Definition:
Any firearm left in a designated container, in an undesignated location (on a table, on top of a barrel etc.) or at a stipulated start position in any condition, unless the muzzle is breaking the 180-degree Safety Plane (Rule 2.5)
1.5 b) Grounded Firearm Definition:
A firearm will not be considered grounded until another firearm is discharged. You are permitted to go back and rectify incorrectly abandoned firearms left in an incorrect condition or location until the next firearm is discharged. All 180 degree rules apply and competitor must be safely behind the firearm before touching and while handling the abandoned firearm. You will be allowed to go back, retrieve an abandoned firearm and re-engage targets without penalty. A re-holstered pistol is not considered grounded, but a pistol abandoned in a designated container will be considered grounded after the next firearm is discharged. Any firearm that has been grounded may be retrieved and used in the course of fire, but will incur penalty. (Rule 3.4.1)
1.5.1 During the course of fire, a competitor may be required to ground a firearm in order to transition to another. Designated containers designed to safely accommodate grounded firearms shall be specified in the Written Stage Briefing. (Rule 2.4.1,2.4.2, 3.12)
1.5.1a If a Pistol is to be grounded, it must be placed into the small designated containers only. However, if a pistol is grounded in the incorrect designated container, the following penalties or match DQ will apply. (Rule 2.4.1a, 2.4.1b, 2.4.2b, 3.12)
1.5.1b If Rifles or Shotguns are to be grounded, they must be placed into the large designated containers only.
There are two acceptable safe methods to ground a firearm.
1.5.1.1 Safety Condition One "Loaded with Safety Engaged"
1.5.1.1.1 Pistols with any type of manual safety lever must be engaged to satisfy the “loaded on safe†condition regardless of passive safeties.
1.5.1.1.2 Pistols without a manual safety must have passive safeties in operational condition; this will satisfy the safety engaged requirement. A "Passive Safety" is a safety that engages automatically and disables the firearm from discharging while the firearm is not being handled. "Safe Action" striker safeties or "Passive Trigger Safeties" fall under this ruling. "Operational" means: The safety operates correctly as intended. It must not be altered or disabled in a way that while not being handled, the safety features can no longer prevent the firearm from discharging.
1.5.1.1.3 If the pistol has no manual safety and the only manual lever is a de-cocking mechanism, it must be engaged and the hammer must be de-cocked to satisfy the safety engaged condition.
Club Series Only
1.5.1.2 Safety Condition Two "Completely Empty"
1.5.1.2.1 Completely Empty chamber, with no live rounds in the feed tube or the magazine removed.
1.5.1.2.2 Completely Empty chamber, slide/bolt locked open with empty feed tube or loaded magazine removed.
1.5.1.2.3 Completely Empty chamber, slide/bolt forward with an empty feed tube or unloaded magazine inserted.
Regional Series Only
1.5.1.2 Safety Condition Two "Empty Chamber"
1.5.1.2.1 Empty chamber, with no live rounds in the feed tube or the magazine removed.
1.5.1.2.2 Empty chamber, slide/bolt locked open with loaded feed tube or loaded magazine inserted.
1.5.1.2.3 Empty chamber, slide/bolt forward with a loaded feed tube or loaded magazine inserted.
Exception: Spent round in the chamber constitutes an empty chamber.
1.5.2 Re-holstering a loaded pistol. A course of fire will never require a competitor to re-holster a pistol after the start signal.
However, a competitor may re-holster provided this is accomplished safely as per Rules 1.5.1.1, 1.5.1.2, 1.5.1.3
1.5.3 When clearing the firearm at the end of the COF, any round(s) that are found inadvertently left touching a firearm do not constitute a loaded chamber or loading device. (eg.. live round that has stove piped, live round in the mag well)
Endangering any person, including yourself, through unsafe gun handling is not allowed. This includes sweeping one’s self or anyone else with a loaded or unloaded firearm. Sweeping is defined as allowing the muzzle of the firearm (loaded or unloaded) to cross or cover any portion of a person or an object a person might reasonably be assumed to occupy, such as a car, portable toilet, or structure that is not a prop within the current stage. The penalty for endangering is match disqualification.
Exception 1 - A match disqualification is not applicable for sweeping of the lower extremities (below the belt) while drawing or re-holstering of the handgun, provided that the competitor’s fingers are clearly outside of the trigger guard. This exception is only for holstered handguns.
Exception 2 - A match disqualification is not applicable to changing choke tubes or magazine end cap tension on an unloaded shotgun and/or cleaning the muzzle device on an unloaded rifle or pistol, provided the competitor’s hand is the only part of any person covered by the muzzle.
Here is a link to the 3GN regional series rules.
http://3gunnation.com/regionals/rules_awards
1.5 GROUNDING FIREARMS
1.5 a) Abandoned Firearm Definition:
Any firearm left in a designated container, in an undesignated location (on a table, on top of a barrel etc.) or at a stipulated
start position in any condition, unless the muzzle is breaking the 180-degree Safety Plane (Rule 2.5)
1.5 b) Grounded Firearm Definition:
A firearm will not be considered grounded until another firearm is discharged. You are permitted to go back and rectify incorrectly abandoned firearms left in an incorrect condition or location until the next firearm is discharged. All 180 degree rules apply and competitor must be safely behind the firearm before touching and while handling the abandoned firearm. You will be allowed to go back, retrieve an abandoned firearm and re-engage targets without penalty. A re-holstered pistol is not considered grounded, but a pistol abandoned in a designated container will be considered grounded after the next firearm is discharged. Any firearm that has been grounded may be retrieved and used in the course of fire, but will incur penalty. (Rule 3.4.1)
1.5.1 During the course of fire, a competitor may be required to ground a firearm in order to transition to another. Designated containers designed to safely accommodate grounded firearms shall be specified in the Written Stage Briefing. (Rule 2.4.1,2.4.2, 3.12)
1.5.1a If a Pistol is to be grounded, it must be placed into the small designated containers only. However, if a pistol is grounded in the incorrect designated container, the following penalties or match DQ will apply. (Rule 2.4.1a, 2.4.1b, 2.4.2b, 3.12)
1.5.1b If Rifles or Shotguns are to be grounded, they must be placed into the large designated containers only.
There are two acceptable safe methods to ground a firearm.
1.5.1.1 Safety Condition One "Loaded with Safety Engaged"
1.5.1.1.1 Pistols with any type of manual safety lever must be engaged to satisfy the “loaded on safe†condition regardless of passive safeties.
1.5.1.1.2 Pistols without a manual safety must have passive safeties in operational condition; this will satisfy the safety engaged requirement. A "Passive Safety" is a safety that engages automatically and disables the firearm from discharging while the firearm is not being handled. "Safe Action" striker safeties or "Passive Trigger Safeties" fall under this ruling. "Operational" means: The safety operates correctly as intended. It must not be altered or disabled in a way that while not being handled, the safety features can no longer prevent the firearm from discharging.
1.5.1.1.3 If the pistol has no manual safety and the only manual lever is a de-cocking mechanism, it must be engaged and the hammer must be de-cocked to satisfy the safety engaged condition.
1.5.1.2 Safety Condition Two "Empty Chamber"
1.5.1.2.1 Empty chamber, with no live rounds in the feed tube or the magazine removed.
1.5.1.2.2 Empty chamber, slide/bolt locked open with loaded feed tube or loaded magazine inserted.
1.5.1.2.3 Empty chamber, slide/bolt forward with a loaded feed tube or loaded magazine inserted.
Exception: Spent round in the chamber constitutes an empty chamber.
1.5.2 Re-holstering a loaded pistol. A course of fire will never require a competitor to re-holster a pistol after the start signal.
However, a competitor may re-holster provided this is accomplished safely as per Rules 1.5.1.1, 1.5.1.2, 1.5.1.3
1.5.3 When clearing the firearm at the end of the COF, any round(s) that are found inadvertently left touching a firearm do not constitute a loaded chamber or loading device. (eg.. live round that has stove piped, live round in the mag well)
Endangering any person, including yourself, through unsafe gun handling is not allowed. This includes sweeping one’s self or anyone else with a loaded or unloaded firearm. Sweeping is defined as allowing the muzzle of the firearm (loaded or unloaded) to cross or cover any portion of a person or an object a person might reasonably be assumed to occupy, such as a car, portable toilet, or structure that is not a prop within the current stage. The penalty for endangering is match disqualification.
Exception 1 - A match disqualification is not applicable for sweeping of the lower extremities (below the belt) while drawing or re-holstering of the handgun, provided that the competitor’s fingers are clearly outside of the trigger guard. This exception is only for holstered handguns.
Exception 2 - A match disqualification is not applicable to changing choke tubes or magazine end cap tension on an unloaded shotgun and/or cleaning the muzzle device on an unloaded rifle or pistol, provided the competitor’s hand is the only part of any person covered by the muzzle.