2015 OK State IDPA Championship

mike cyrwus · Mar 17, 2015

You know what bugs me about USPSA? Its those fault lines

They say that their courses should be freestyle, but whats freestyle about being penalized for shooting outside a shooting area? Its not like they are 8" tall walls, theyre usually just 2x2's. I mean, I can easily step over a stick in the real world, right??

mike cyrwus · Mar 17, 2015

Moral: games have rules.

Rules people dont like are usually the ones that require skills that they are not good at.

mike cyrwus · Mar 17, 2015

example: Who used to absolutely hate loading a shotgun? and how many of those guys now enjoy the shotgun part of three gun now that they dont load like a retard anymore?

LuckyDucky · Mar 17, 2015

jtischauser · Mar 17, 2015

mike cyrwus said:
Contradictory? you dont make any sense.

Ive worn a concealment vest, Tom Givens wears a concealment vest, the actions used to "clear" the vest in order to draw the firearm are very similar to a sport coat, jacket, coat, button down shirt, etc. Do you own any of those?

Do you even know that IDPA rules just tell you concealment has to be worn? They dont say you need to wear a vest.

Thats kind of a "gamer" iteration of the rules. You should dig that, Jesse.

You can even run a loose fitting t-shirt or sweat shirt for your concealment.

The fact that everyone games the cover is exactly the opposite of the sports intent of using real world guns and gear. Did you own your vest prior to starting IDPA or after starting IDPA?

They should have an Open carry division that doesn't require concealment and see how that plays out. I'd bet money it becomes more popular then the concealment vest division at every level but the club level where guys actually use carry guns with actual daily concealment garments.

Airic · Mar 17, 2015

To me they are games and competition. I go to have fun and try to do my best.

Neither of these are training. I wish people would get that. Training involves repetition on specific skill sets. If you want to train for real world self defense, find a trainer good at that and follow him...like Mike Seeklander. Go out with the gear you wear everyday and train the skill sets that will save your life. Gun fights are violent and fast, its pretty easy through some research to know what you need to be good at. A little research will also show you that it is very, very rare for a civilian self defense situation to involve more that two threats.

Competitions are tests. The only thing they do well is teach you to deal with a certain level of stress on demand.

jtischauser · Mar 17, 2015

I like the idea of an actual carry gun match. I just think the rule makers at IDPA miss the boat on the fact that most of us compete because it's fun and we enjoy shooting as much or more then we all want to get trigger time with our carry guns.

The magazine retention thing, flat footed reloads, concealment garments, no air gunning, and cover rules are all someone's ideology of what defensive pistol should be. Id rather see the emphasis be on marksmanship and fun.

I think I'm gonna try to shoot BUG gun nationals next year because all of my actual carry guns are compact, sub compact or pocket pistols.

Jeff T. · Mar 17, 2015

mike cyrwus said:
Moral: games have rules.

Rules people dont like are usually the ones that require skills that they are not good at.

This is True.

mike cyrwus said:
example: Who used to absolutely hate loading a shotgun? and how many of those guys now enjoy the shotgun part of three gun now that they dont load like a retard anymore?

This is me. After a little practice I don't hate loading the shotgun, I still load pretty much like I only have half of my fingers.

I have only shot 3 IDPA matches. All of them in Weatherford OK.
They were fun to shoot.
I would shoot them like I shoot USPSA, if there was a match close enough for me to travel to, with the limited time and budget I have.

Jeff T. · Mar 17, 2015

Jesse Tischauser said:
I like the idea of an actual carry gun match...

Safety 1st Gun Range
1st, 3rd, & 5th Sunday nights
Sign in @ 5:30
Setup @ 6:00
Done usually by 8:45 or 9:00
$20.00
Limited to 1st 30 people, I think...

mike cyrwus · Mar 17, 2015

Jesse Tischauser said:
The fact that everyone games the cover is exactly the opposite of the sports intent of using real world guns and gear. Did you own your vest prior to starting IDPA or after starting IDPA?

They should have an Open carry division that doesn't require concealment and see how that plays out. I'd bet money it becomes more popular then the concealment vest division at every level but the club level where guys actually use carry guns with actual daily concealment garments.

I owned a vest prior to shooting IDPA, I have also owned other types of cover even before i was legally able to carry. Garments like suit coats, sweatshirts, and button down shirts, etc. I have also shot using a duty belt, something that is also an option, if one wants to train with the gear they will normally be using. Another example of intent.

To the extreme, Maybe they should have a division that allows for squirt guns, or maybe instead of shooting man sized targets, we allow them to puss out and shoot pizza boxes.

Gaming the cover or not, the firearm is still legally concealed, and each competitor is clearing their holster of a cover garment before shooting a course of fire, and that is exactly the intent of the rules.

Spencer, Im not butt hurt at all, I am merely speaking with reason and speaking up for what I believe an often belittled and underheard voice in the competitive shooting community.

stan686 · Mar 17, 2015

If i'm not mistaken, the flat footed reload is already a thing of the past. I agree, that one was ignorant.

stan686 · Mar 17, 2015

I think you ought to be able to play basketball and not have to dribble the ball. Dribbling the ball makes no sense, it's stupid. I mean after all, it's just about putting the ball in the hoop,,right?

If you had an "open carry division", don't you just have USPSA production?

Let IDPA, be IDPA. I think there is something to be said for having to shoot and also have your brain engaged to the point that you are having to be aware of those rules. Cover is the one that comes to my mind the most, and cover is not your concealment garment. 100% of your lower body and 50% of your upper body behind cover while engaging the targets and taking the targets in order. It makes you think a little instead of just standing there blasting away. Is it "real world"? NO. It's just a game. Take it for what it is, get good at it and have fun. The good, major competitor/shooters don't have a problem with it and they still manage to kick every bodys ass.

stan686 · Mar 17, 2015

Jesse, just FYI, Badlands IDPA match is coming up April 25 I believe. I don't know if there are still spots open or not. It is a regional match with points towards nationals. Check with Jack Ostendorf at Oil Capital. He's MD.

jtischauser · Mar 17, 2015

mike cyrwus said:
I owned a vest prior to shooting IDPA, I have also owned other types of cover even before i was legally able to carry. Garments like suit coats, sweatshirts, and button down shirts, etc. I have also shot using a duty belt, something that is also an option, if one wants to train with the gear they will normally be using. Another example of intent.

To the extreme, Maybe they should have a division that allows for squirt guns, or maybe instead of shooting man sized targets, we allow them to puss out and shoot pizza boxes.

Gaming the cover or not, the firearm is still legally concealed, and each competitor is clearing their holster of a cover garment before shooting a course of fire, and that is exactly the intent of the rules.

Spencer, Im not butt hurt at all, I am merely speaking with reason and speaking up for what I believe an often belittled and underheard voice in the competitive shooting community.

You make good points! If I was and guy I'd take out everyone wearing vests first. Just saying.

jtischauser · Mar 17, 2015

Stan Nance said:
Jesse, just FYI, Badlands IDPA match is coming up April 25 I believe. I don't know if there are still spots open or not. It is a regional match with points towards nationals. Check with Jack Ostendorf at Oil Capital. He's MD.

Unfortunately it won't count for this years nationals and I can't leave work in April.

Burk Cornelius · Mar 17, 2015

IDPA threads are awesome. Like Facebook, without the trolls

LuckyDucky · Mar 17, 2015

Are there regular IDPA matches in OK?

poopgiggle · Mar 17, 2015

I think that a lot of IDPA's hilarity comes from the sport's origins, which was an attempt to create a game with no gaming. Which, of course, is ridiculous because gamers gonna game games. This leads to a weird kind of cognitive dissonance as the leadership tries to embrace the serious competitors, who are gamers by definition, while still staying true to its founding mission of being a Game With No Gaming. This is evident in the recent rulebook gyrations.

Not that USPSA doesn't have its own ridiculousness, like B class nobodies wearing jerseys or the airgunning conga line before every stage. The difference is that the USPSA organization has no pretensions about what it is and isn't.

I don't hate IDPA by any means. I just quit shooting it because it's less fun to me than USPSA, and I don't want to keep track of rulebook changes that fundamentally change the way I shoot a stage. I would like IDPA a lot more if it would quit trying so hard to be Not IPSC, and just be an action shooting sport that average gun people can shoot with gear they already own.

E: I'm not going to say I've totally stopped making fun of IDPA, but I've cut down on it. Mostly because it's like making Family Guy references; it's just cheap, easy laughs.