shootingbuff
Well-Known Fanatic
That would be a good thing to know.
Sheriffs taking a stand
- Thread starter shootingbuff
- Start date
When it comes to open carry issues, I spend a lot more time at opencarry.org than I do here. It is the premier site for OC anywhere in the nation. The recommendations from there is to carry a recorder of some type whenever carrying, video or just voice, but carry a recorder. They also recommend that you be well versed in the specifics of your rights, as not all LE are in favor of OC or know the specific laws that cover it. A recorder works both ways, if you don't know the law and get into a confrontation, you have just "sunk your own ship" but if LE tries to make up laws as they go, like the officer in the video, then you have what you need if the situation escalates to the point of an illegal arrest or seizure. The LAC in this video was very well versed in the law and its application, he did everything he was required to do by the laws of the land. It appeared to me that after the initial encounter, the LE was on a "fishing expedition"
shootingbuff
Well-Known Fanatic
First cops are supposed to look for the bad - geez
You catch more flies with sugar than with out. If one only wants to protect their rights it isn't going to happen getting mouthy on the street. Get to the point where you are getting mouthy, not being cooperative and acting like a jerk and I would have to ascertain what was right, what was wrong, etc and well let's say I would be very polite but very slow as well.
This guy may be a nut in the video and I know NM is sane about OC, but if this is how folks are suggesting to act then I will pass this stupidity on to the governor and to the sheriffs that the citizens are not mature enough to OC and in some cases maybe not own firearms.
Open disobedience or out right trying to instigate a confrontation should be dealt with like an out of control three yr old and if you want to know how I really feel about I'll tell you. I support no gun control except that which is applied while firing, but I do not like anything causing a blemish on those willing to be responsible and mature gun owners. Why do responsible gun owners have to suffer because of an immature attitude? They shouldn't. I think most think of OC as cool. I look at it as someone is going to get beat down because they are running off at the mouth. Really cool setting back gun rights. toot toot blow the horn for the antis. Crap like this is exactly what is going to hurt gun ownership. Yep really brave making sure everything is on camera. Guess we know who is afraid of a beat down. I would suggest the camera person and any others with the so-called citizen get a liberal dose of night stick. This is freaking insane. If thier daddy didn't teach them manners then I hope someone does. Sooner the better
Hey I hear birdshot is the best thing for HD.
You catch more flies with sugar than with out. If one only wants to protect their rights it isn't going to happen getting mouthy on the street. Get to the point where you are getting mouthy, not being cooperative and acting like a jerk and I would have to ascertain what was right, what was wrong, etc and well let's say I would be very polite but very slow as well.
This guy may be a nut in the video and I know NM is sane about OC, but if this is how folks are suggesting to act then I will pass this stupidity on to the governor and to the sheriffs that the citizens are not mature enough to OC and in some cases maybe not own firearms.
Open disobedience or out right trying to instigate a confrontation should be dealt with like an out of control three yr old and if you want to know how I really feel about I'll tell you. I support no gun control except that which is applied while firing, but I do not like anything causing a blemish on those willing to be responsible and mature gun owners. Why do responsible gun owners have to suffer because of an immature attitude? They shouldn't. I think most think of OC as cool. I look at it as someone is going to get beat down because they are running off at the mouth. Really cool setting back gun rights. toot toot blow the horn for the antis. Crap like this is exactly what is going to hurt gun ownership. Yep really brave making sure everything is on camera. Guess we know who is afraid of a beat down. I would suggest the camera person and any others with the so-called citizen get a liberal dose of night stick. This is freaking insane. If thier daddy didn't teach them manners then I hope someone does. Sooner the better
Hey I hear birdshot is the best thing for HD.
I am glad you are not in charge of making these decisions. This is not a police state sir . I reaffirm that police should know the law and abide by it just as regular citizens are required to do. Hickory shampoo for citizens abiding by the law because they are not doing as you think they should, that is scary. Wow just wow.
Thank you for the sanity.
shootingbuff
Well-Known Fanatic
LEOs should know the law to the best of their ability. That is why they have more experienced /knowledgeable supervisors to call on or someone back at the station. Do you know every driving regulation? You might but most folks I believe get enough smarts to pass a test and then do a brain dump. Even if the LEO in te video knew the law he still had to find out what is going on. That deals with securing any suspects and if need be put someone in cuffs and take control of anything that may be used as a wpn. Which if everything is good to go, you get whatever back and you go on your way.
My comments were not so much about OC but immature attitudes and manners. You can beat your drum and drink from people power, but if you are serious about gun rights you would advocate for less noise, especially when not necessary and would want to demonstrate a safe and mature attitude vs just the opposite.
At no time do I believe in a police state. I believe in a proper upbringing.
My comments were not so much about OC but immature attitudes and manners. You can beat your drum and drink from people power, but if you are serious about gun rights you would advocate for less noise, especially when not necessary and would want to demonstrate a safe and mature attitude vs just the opposite.
At no time do I believe in a police state. I believe in a proper upbringing.
"Cops "looking for the bad - geez"
While that is part of their job, how many start a shift thinking they want to get in an altercation with a BG? They train for it and are supposed to be ready for it, but how many do you really think walk to their car thinking of how many fights they can get into today?
I can't speak for Maine, but if this had happened in VA, or some other states that have gold star open carry status, it would have gone a lot differently.
Police receive MWAG call - dispatcher asks if the MWAG is doing anything else, (such as brandishing, threatening others). If the answer is no, the dispatcher informs the caller that MWAG is legal and they don't send an officer. The officer is free to pursue other duties.
My take on the video is this - MWAG call, police respond. The MWAG is legally carrying and obeying the law. Officer confirmed this. Situation should have stopped there. Man was courteous, but insistent, that the officer did not have the right to secure his weapon or detain him. Facts later shown to be true. The officer asked for ID which the man was not required, by law, to produce. Officer says "you might be a felon" but does not have any cause for suspicion to support that. The man knew the law and his rights and stood up for them. He never presented himself as a physical threat in any manner, but verbally challenged the officer and his lack of knowledge of the law. He never called the officer names or treated him with disrespect.
"Open disobedience or out right trying to instigate a confrontation should be dealt with like an out of control three yr old"
Where would civil rights be if it had not been for open disobedience? Would we even have a country if it had not been for open disobedience? You appear to be ready to label anyone with a gun as a "suspect" before there is any evidence they have done anything wrong. Our constitution guarantees that we are "innocent until proven guilty" and in this situation there was no evidence that there was any guilt for anything.
With the coming change to the carry laws in Oklahoma, Law enforcement and the carrying public need to be versed in the laws and requirements. We don' t need anyone trying to make things up as they go. Courtesy and respect is a 2 way street.
While that is part of their job, how many start a shift thinking they want to get in an altercation with a BG? They train for it and are supposed to be ready for it, but how many do you really think walk to their car thinking of how many fights they can get into today?
I can't speak for Maine, but if this had happened in VA, or some other states that have gold star open carry status, it would have gone a lot differently.
Police receive MWAG call - dispatcher asks if the MWAG is doing anything else, (such as brandishing, threatening others). If the answer is no, the dispatcher informs the caller that MWAG is legal and they don't send an officer. The officer is free to pursue other duties.
My take on the video is this - MWAG call, police respond. The MWAG is legally carrying and obeying the law. Officer confirmed this. Situation should have stopped there. Man was courteous, but insistent, that the officer did not have the right to secure his weapon or detain him. Facts later shown to be true. The officer asked for ID which the man was not required, by law, to produce. Officer says "you might be a felon" but does not have any cause for suspicion to support that. The man knew the law and his rights and stood up for them. He never presented himself as a physical threat in any manner, but verbally challenged the officer and his lack of knowledge of the law. He never called the officer names or treated him with disrespect.
"Open disobedience or out right trying to instigate a confrontation should be dealt with like an out of control three yr old"
Where would civil rights be if it had not been for open disobedience? Would we even have a country if it had not been for open disobedience? You appear to be ready to label anyone with a gun as a "suspect" before there is any evidence they have done anything wrong. Our constitution guarantees that we are "innocent until proven guilty" and in this situation there was no evidence that there was any guilt for anything.
With the coming change to the carry laws in Oklahoma, Law enforcement and the carrying public need to be versed in the laws and requirements. We don' t need anyone trying to make things up as they go. Courtesy and respect is a 2 way street.
I agree with this, I think it is everyones' obligation as a member of our society to be civilly disobedient when the time calls for it. It was not that long ago that our rights were in serious jeopardy of being lost. We still have not restored them to the state that the were originally in. Being "good citizens" and not making a scene helped us almost lose them.
shootingbuff
Well-Known Fanatic
You may try and blur the lines of fighting for this country and it's independence as well as civil liberties. The fact is having a confrontation for the sake of having a confrontation isn't anywhere near the same and you do everyone who stepped up for those legitimate causes disrespect.
I truly don't care what one thinks about a state with a gold star OC rating. If a LEO doesn't get facts they are wrong and I doubt it would had been different because the gun guy was looking for 5 min of fame. The difference could very well had been a cop not having as much patience. Like I stated if anyone is concerned about gun rights they would stay low profile and demonstrate they are mature enough to carry without getting into trouble or starting it.
It is obvious the only agenda some have is to be the opposite of a good gun owner. As stated anything to cause a blemish I don't like. I also don't like mouthy individuals looking for 5 min of fame or anyone being disrespectful.
If one took the reasonable person standard and applied it to the gun guy he would be a a very big fail. He wasn’t reasonable he was not assisting in the officer getting the information and in doing so was acting an arse. Very good demonstration of a mature person.
I truly don't care what one thinks about a state with a gold star OC rating. If a LEO doesn't get facts they are wrong and I doubt it would had been different because the gun guy was looking for 5 min of fame. The difference could very well had been a cop not having as much patience. Like I stated if anyone is concerned about gun rights they would stay low profile and demonstrate they are mature enough to carry without getting into trouble or starting it.
It is obvious the only agenda some have is to be the opposite of a good gun owner. As stated anything to cause a blemish I don't like. I also don't like mouthy individuals looking for 5 min of fame or anyone being disrespectful.
If one took the reasonable person standard and applied it to the gun guy he would be a a very big fail. He wasn’t reasonable he was not assisting in the officer getting the information and in doing so was acting an arse. Very good demonstration of a mature person.
shootingbuff
Well-Known Fanatic
So what bad citizen demonstration assisted in getting gun rights? Did you read what you wrote. Our rights are more apt to be lost now then ever before.
KeithCross
Well-Known Fanatic
Jerry...don't start that again! LOL!
shootingbuff
Well-Known Fanatic
Saw that did you? lol Well it certainly was a better topic then where this one has gone. I tried to change the course and stay out it. Didn't work oops 
Question:
Do you want the police being dispatched to check the validity of someone who is OC? I'm curious.....
Here is the opinion of the average street cop......we don't care if you OC. If you want to walk around with a huge target on your back, that's your right.
When we contact you, just be polite, and bear with us.
Do you want the police being dispatched to check the validity of someone who is OC? I'm curious.....
Here is the opinion of the average street cop......we don't care if you OC. If you want to walk around with a huge target on your back, that's your right.
When we contact you, just be polite, and bear with us.
And as far as the Police knowing every law...... We know the ones we deal with some regularity. But each call is different. And case laws are ever changing. Courts get copious amounts of time to research and come to their conclusions. We don't get that luxury.
You do realize that the bulk of the Officers in this State make little more than minimum wage? A lot qualify for public assistance. Some don't even have body armor, because their departments can't afford them. Nobody with a law school level education is working under those conditions.
Nonetheless, one should try to be as knowledgable as possible.
You do realize that the bulk of the Officers in this State make little more than minimum wage? A lot qualify for public assistance. Some don't even have body armor, because their departments can't afford them. Nobody with a law school level education is working under those conditions.
Nonetheless, one should try to be as knowledgable as possible.
Feegee
The Magic Man
All I know is if you are respectful to a LEO then most of the time you get respect back in return. Rights or no rights just have proper manners!
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OldCurlyWolf
.22 LR
Because it is not the "Gubbermits" business whether or not ANYONE wears a seatbelt, or a helmet or eats their wheaties, etc.
poopgiggle
B Class Nobody
It's none of the government's business whether or not I make dirty phone calls to my ex-girlfriends but I don't because it would be a bad idea.
poopgiggle
B Class Nobody
OK I try not to
can I make dirty phone calls to your ex-girlfriends?
Or current, It really doesn't matter to me.
poopgiggle
B Class Nobody
some of them might stalk you and/or give you a special kind of grownup disease that makes it hurt to go number 1 but knock yourself out
