shootingbuff
Well-Known Fanatic
http://gunowners.org/op01042012ldp.htm
Sheriffs taking a stand
- Thread starter shootingbuff
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dennishoddy
Moderator
Sheriffs Standing with the People against the Feds
Wednesday, 04 January 2012 23:22 Written by Larry Pratt
I have reported earlier that sheriffs in New Mexico are threatening to arrest federal agents if they attempt to enforce unconstitutional federal acts in contravention of state law.
The even better news is that sheriffs in other states are doing the same. Sheriff Brad Rogers of Elkhart County, Indiana has told Food and Drug Administration agents they will be arrested if they go on Amish farmer David Hochstetler’s land. Having falsely alleged that raw, unpasteurized milk sold by Hochstetler had caused several cases of food poisoning, the FDA filed a complaint in federal court to support their attack on the farmer.
I have consumed raw milk for years and can affirm that it is not only safe, but much healthier than pasteurized milk.
The threat of incarceration led the feds to withdraw their complaint against Hochstetler. This was even after US Department of Justice attorney Ross Goldstein emailed the Sheriff that he would be arrested if he protected Hochstetler. When Sheriff Rogers refused to back down, the FDA cried uncle.
Rogers’s communication to the feds seemed to have been quite convincing: “Any further attempts to inspect this farm without a warrant signed by a local judge, based on probable cause, will result in Federal inspectors’ removal or arrest for trespassing by my officers or I.†The feds have gotten used to acting without due process -- in this case, that means not bothering to get a search warrant.
Rogers’ campaign website listed his number one objective as “Upholding the Constitution.†He is also concerned about the heart condition of his inmates and is determined to help “Provide Hope to Change a Heart.†Under that header he says, “The Elkhart County jail has 74 church services a month and allows unprecedented access to ministry volunteers. Not only can we impact inmates for the here and now, but for eternity.â€
Sheriff Rogers requires his deputies to take three, two-day classes on the Constitution (at a tuition rate of $125 per person).
Rogers is not alone in his love for the Constitution. Ellis County, Texas Sheriff Johnny Brown has stated that he would resist any effort by the federal government to confiscate firearms in his county.
Sheriff Joe Baca in Sierra County, California told his county commission that he will not enforce road closures on Bureau of Land Management and Gila National Forest Lands.
Sheriff Gil Gilbertson of Josephine County, Oregon has told the Forest Service that he will protect those using the forest in his county. He has written a short treatise entitled, “Unraveling Federal Jurisdiction within a State.†It is actually a scholarly piece based on citations from the Constitution, court cases and statutes and concludes that the Forest Service has no authority in any county.
Siskiyou County, California Sheriff Jon Lopey has said: “I have told federal and state officials over and over that, yes, we want to preserve the environment, but you care more about the fish, frogs, trees and birds than you do about the human race. When will you start to balance your decisions to the needs of the people?...We are right now in a fight for our survival.†Lopey spearheaded a coalition of eight sheriffs calling themselves: “Defend Rural America.â€
In the days after Hurricane Katrina, power was out for days. Food and medicine were about to be lost. So Sheriff Billy McGee of Forrest County, Mississippi -- a Democrat -- took action when he realized that a federal shipment of six trucks of ice bound for Hattiesburg turned out to be only four. McGee went in search of the other two and found them being guarded by some Army reservists who possessed bureaucratic mindsets.
McGee took steps to secure the ice, but was told he was not authorized to take the vehicles. When a reservist would not get off one of the trucks, McGee had him handcuffed. The ice was delivered where it was needed in Hattiesburg, explaining why McGee is also known as The Ice Man.
Not surprisingly, the feds have brought suit against the Sheriff in federal court. Perhaps McGee will arrest any marshals seeking to interfere with the duties of a peace officer.
It is encouraging that men of integrity, who understand that the sheriff is the top law enforcement officer in his county, have been elected in counties around the country. We should be looking for more who fit this description.
Wednesday, 04 January 2012 23:22 Written by Larry Pratt
I have reported earlier that sheriffs in New Mexico are threatening to arrest federal agents if they attempt to enforce unconstitutional federal acts in contravention of state law.
The even better news is that sheriffs in other states are doing the same. Sheriff Brad Rogers of Elkhart County, Indiana has told Food and Drug Administration agents they will be arrested if they go on Amish farmer David Hochstetler’s land. Having falsely alleged that raw, unpasteurized milk sold by Hochstetler had caused several cases of food poisoning, the FDA filed a complaint in federal court to support their attack on the farmer.
I have consumed raw milk for years and can affirm that it is not only safe, but much healthier than pasteurized milk.
The threat of incarceration led the feds to withdraw their complaint against Hochstetler. This was even after US Department of Justice attorney Ross Goldstein emailed the Sheriff that he would be arrested if he protected Hochstetler. When Sheriff Rogers refused to back down, the FDA cried uncle.
Rogers’s communication to the feds seemed to have been quite convincing: “Any further attempts to inspect this farm without a warrant signed by a local judge, based on probable cause, will result in Federal inspectors’ removal or arrest for trespassing by my officers or I.†The feds have gotten used to acting without due process -- in this case, that means not bothering to get a search warrant.
Rogers’ campaign website listed his number one objective as “Upholding the Constitution.†He is also concerned about the heart condition of his inmates and is determined to help “Provide Hope to Change a Heart.†Under that header he says, “The Elkhart County jail has 74 church services a month and allows unprecedented access to ministry volunteers. Not only can we impact inmates for the here and now, but for eternity.â€
Sheriff Rogers requires his deputies to take three, two-day classes on the Constitution (at a tuition rate of $125 per person).
Rogers is not alone in his love for the Constitution. Ellis County, Texas Sheriff Johnny Brown has stated that he would resist any effort by the federal government to confiscate firearms in his county.
Sheriff Joe Baca in Sierra County, California told his county commission that he will not enforce road closures on Bureau of Land Management and Gila National Forest Lands.
Sheriff Gil Gilbertson of Josephine County, Oregon has told the Forest Service that he will protect those using the forest in his county. He has written a short treatise entitled, “Unraveling Federal Jurisdiction within a State.†It is actually a scholarly piece based on citations from the Constitution, court cases and statutes and concludes that the Forest Service has no authority in any county.
Siskiyou County, California Sheriff Jon Lopey has said: “I have told federal and state officials over and over that, yes, we want to preserve the environment, but you care more about the fish, frogs, trees and birds than you do about the human race. When will you start to balance your decisions to the needs of the people?...We are right now in a fight for our survival.†Lopey spearheaded a coalition of eight sheriffs calling themselves: “Defend Rural America.â€
In the days after Hurricane Katrina, power was out for days. Food and medicine were about to be lost. So Sheriff Billy McGee of Forrest County, Mississippi -- a Democrat -- took action when he realized that a federal shipment of six trucks of ice bound for Hattiesburg turned out to be only four. McGee went in search of the other two and found them being guarded by some Army reservists who possessed bureaucratic mindsets.
McGee took steps to secure the ice, but was told he was not authorized to take the vehicles. When a reservist would not get off one of the trucks, McGee had him handcuffed. The ice was delivered where it was needed in Hattiesburg, explaining why McGee is also known as The Ice Man.
Not surprisingly, the feds have brought suit against the Sheriff in federal court. Perhaps McGee will arrest any marshals seeking to interfere with the duties of a peace officer.
It is encouraging that men of integrity, who understand that the sheriff is the top law enforcement officer in his county, have been elected in counties around the country. We should be looking for more who fit this description.
dennishoddy
Moderator
These guys deserve a medal.
Unfortunatly some Sherrifs Departments in Oklahoma are going to legally harass OC gun owners when the law is enacted on Nov 1.
They have publicly stated this.
Unfortunatly some Sherrifs Departments in Oklahoma are going to legally harass OC gun owners when the law is enacted on Nov 1.
They have publicly stated this.
shootingbuff
Well-Known Fanatic
Really now? Wonder how this will turn out. Since Sheriff is an elected position they better hope the citizens are behind them.
andrsnsm
Well-Known Fanatic
I talked to a Midwest City officer about open carry and he told me they will not even be asking for CCL's since they are considering it a violation of rights. I guess we will see how it all plays out a few months after open carry is enacted.
Sam Anderson
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sam Anderson
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
dennishoddy
Moderator
I'm on my phone now, but even the ex HP that caught Mcveigh, that is currently sheriff in noble county is one.
KeithCross
Well-Known Fanatic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfdEbe7e9GE
Thought this was interesting...if you're gonna open carry - KNOW YOUR STUFF!
Thought this was interesting...if you're gonna open carry - KNOW YOUR STUFF!
wow, this cat did his homework.
Unfortunately, I've found that often people are only this knowledgable when they are hoping for a confrontation.
The problem is in many areas confrontations like this must end up taking place. The police need to be educated and so does the public, additionally he took the time to study the law and know his rights. I can see this same thing ending up happening here. Its my belief that at least in some municipalities they hope by having the police stop you every time you OC you will get discouraged and not do it. I think the person in question did the right thing. Nothing is a better educational experience than negative publicity for these cities and counties to be put all over the Internet . JMTC.
KeithCross
Well-Known Fanatic
I'm not for confronting the police just to cause problems, and normally prefer to work with them, but what if this guy had "played nice?" Would the officer have confiscated his gun? How much red tape then would it take to get it back? I don't feel like he was being irrational, i.e., yelling, getting over-emotional, etc. He was fairly proffessional about the whole thing. Maybe some of the LEOs here on BS could comment on it all from their side of things....
poopgiggle
B Class Nobody
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQl5aYhkF3E[/video]
YUP
If by "educating the police" you mean "make YouTube videos of yourself repeating 'am I under arrest? then am I free to go?' while the cop admirably resists the urge to taze you for being a jackass" then no we don't. We have courts for this stuff. I don't think it's realistic for cops to have a nuanced knowledge of Constitutional law, but department policy will probably change after a couple lawsuits. Libertarian Open Carry YouTube Videos may be nice to circlejerk with your friends over but they won't result in any meaningful change.
The guy was well within his rights I'll not argue that. I'll also not argue that we as a society should not be forced to comply to uncostitutional ways of thinking.
All I'm saying is it's pretty clear this guys really has more interest in having a confrontation with the authorities than he does OC'ing.
OC'ing was just the means for it to happen.
All I'm saying is it's pretty clear this guys really has more interest in having a confrontation with the authorities than he does OC'ing.
OC'ing was just the means for it to happen.
aeropb
Well-Known Fanatic
ily poop. You're the man now dog
Respectfully we have to disagree because police should know the law. Most however don't and if they do and choose to do otherwise. A good example of what I am talking about. I have a 1967 chevrolet pickup. I don't have to wear a seatbelt in it because seat belts are not mandatory in pickups and suvs made before 1971 and they are not mandatory in cars made before 1967. I should not have to carry a copy of the law in my dash to show the officer I am right and that he is in violation of the law , but I do. If you don't know the law you are being paid to enforce then you are in the wrong line of work.
Why should a citizen be forced to end up in court because a police officer did not know the law ? Police are public servants and work for the citizenry not the other way around. I am very pro law and order person but its a two way street.
I agree 100% & in the case of the video above, the guy should have never been stopped in the first place.
Just saying it was pretty clear to me that he wanted to be confronted.
andrsnsm
Well-Known Fanatic
Why would you think he wanted to be confronted? I could agree if you said he wanted to be PREPARED in case he was confronted.
Sam Anderson
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
just my opinion, I could very well be wrong.........but I doubt it.
poopgiggle
B Class Nobody
Police officers have to do all different kinds of stuff in their jobs. I'm sure that someday standard police training will include "how to question an open-carrying Caselaw-Spewing Internet Libertarian without getting his panties all in a bunch" but I'm not surprised that it doesn't right now, since that is an incredibly unlikely boundary condition. IMO an individual having a hissy fit at one police officer isn't going to change their policy.
While misguided, I thought that the way the cop in the video handled the situation was admirable; he stayed polite and professional despite the fact that he had to deal with this gigantic cockbag.
Look I'm just Cuckoo for Coco Puffs when it comes to checking overreaching behavior by LE officers but you're not going to change American police culture by being a snotty dick like the dude in this video.
poopgiggle
B Class Nobody
Also, wear a goddamn seatbelt what is wrong with you.
