Rules Discussion

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Jesse Tischauser said:
I lost respect for the "system" when I was DQ'd at Area 4 because the RO's thought they saw a round go over the berm. Even though there was video and witnesses that saw it different.
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I'm new here, but I've been lurking for quite awhile. I'm hoping to shoot my first match very soon. Please don't flame me for this. But didn't you admit you were doing a mag change when you AD'ed? Didn't you admit that it was an AD? Isn't that grounds for a DQ? I'm just trying to understand where the fault lies with the RO's.
 
DVC said:
I'm new here, but I've been lurking for quite awhile. I'm hoping to shoot my first match very soon. Please don't flame me for this. But ...
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Tell ya what. Lets keep that out of this discussion. If we decide to reopen that can of worms, we'll do it another thread.
I'm considering a new forum for range lawyers, rules nazis, and rules discussions...but not yet.
 
TroyF said:
Go for it....
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Back by popular demand. A shooter has finished the course the course of fire. The RO issues the command "unload and show clear". The shooter drops the mag, jacks the slide back rapidly, reaches to snatch the ejected round out of the air and while doing so, crosses their weak hand with the muzzle of an unloaded pistol. USPSA Handgun Rulebook cites and answer please. Extra gun at the classifier paid by me for a correct answer. If you also tell how I incorrectly worded the question, your entire HH match or next pistol match we shoot at together is on me.
 
Scott Hearn said:
Well Jesse, if you read the posts jermaine to this, you would see:

1) That I wasn't handling the gun, therefore I didn't drop it in the sense that postmstr opined.
2) The gun was still in it's holster.
3) The RO confirmed that my dumb ass didn't go to the safety area and load it up when he came and picked it up and checked for it for clear.

Hence the no DQ....
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I was my referring to you specifically Scott. I know you are the opposite of a Dumb ass. It would take a lot for me to ever DQ you. In fact I bet I would never have to.
 
benjamin-benjamin said:
this is like jeopardy for guns!!!
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Anybody else in favor of a rules forum? Anyone got an answer? Or....just an opinion as to whether this is a good habit to get into or not. I say let it fly and land wherever, it may look all tacticool but maybe unsafe? How do the rules apply?
 
DVC said:
I'm new here, but I've been lurking for quite awhile. I'm hoping to shoot my first match very soon. Please don't flame me for this. But didn't you admit you were doing a mag change when you AD'ed? Didn't you admit that it was an AD? Isn't that grounds for a DQ? I'm just trying to understand where the fault lies with the RO's.
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AD'd happen all the time. If they are in a safe direction it's impossible to determine if the AD was intentional or not if it's was a safe direction. That's what mine was. If the berms had been taller it would have been a non issue. I'm not blaming the RO's couldnt tell in real time what happened which is why I didnt dispute things until i saw the video and yalked to witnesses. I'm blaming the system and the short berms. I admit that it was an AD. Heck it was the third AD we saw that morning. All 3 of them hit the berms and/or targets. If the rules would have been written correctly the 3 guys in the squad behind us that saw the splash of the bullet in the dirt would have got me back in the game and saved me $500+.
 
Pstmstr said:
Back by popular demand. A shooter has finished the course the course of fire. The RO issues the command "unload and show clear". The shooter drops the mag, jacks the slide back rapidly, reaches to snatch the ejected round out of the air and while doing so, crosses their weak hand with the muzzle of an unloaded pistol. USPSA Handgun Rulebook cites and answer please. Extra gun at the classifier paid by me for a correct answer. If you also tell how I incorrectly worded the question, your entire HH match or next pistol match we shoot at together is on me.
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SweepIng yourself with a gun is always a DQ offense on account of being a dumb ass. Loaded or otherwise.
 
Pstmstr said:
Anybody else in favor of a rules forum? Anyone got an answer? Or....just an opinion as to whether this is a good habit to get into or not. I say let it fly and land wherever, it may look all tacticool but maybe unsafe? How do the rules apply?
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Working on it....
 
Jake Burki said:
So if it falls on the ground that's ok, but if it sweeps any one on the way down then it's a DQ?
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Once you drop it there is no booger hook near the bang switch. It's a safe gun unless you try to catch it or have disabled all the safeties which is a whole other problem.

I drop my Glock several times at every 3 gun match. Actually I throw it every 3 gun match and it's safe. No DQ.
 
Yeah...10.5.5. That shooter swept his body with the muzzle. Unloaded or not. Course of fire wasnt finished because he had not yet holstered.

Is it a bad habit? Maybe. Beats covering the ejection port and jacking that round into your hand. I say, let it fly.
 
Pstmstr said:
Back by popular demand. A shooter has finished the course the course of fire. The RO issues the command "unload and show clear". The shooter drops the mag, jacks the slide back rapidly, reaches to snatch the ejected round out of the air and while doing so, crosses their weak hand with the muzzle of an unloaded pistol. USPSA Handgun Rulebook cites and answer please. Extra gun at the classifier paid by me for a correct answer. If you also tell how I incorrectly worded the question, your entire HH match or next pistol match we shoot at together is on me.
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COF is not finished until the "range is clear" comand is issued (8.3.8 ) so there would be a sweeping issue (10.5.5) that would result in a DQ (I think) Actually the shooter has not finished the course of fire in your example due to no range is clear command

Wes
 
i have refrained from giving my opinion on this and still won't give my exact thoughts, but i will say this.....
Playing sports my whole life i have always felt bad for refs, every time they go out one team or the other thinks they did a sucky job, they can do everything perfect 99% of the time and all people talk about is the 1% of time. Now a lot of very specific examples have been given out and people have weighed in (well if it was me i would have DQ'd him, if it was me I would do this, etc...).... Let me say this, (so far, i am sure there are exceptions) all the RO's i have dealt with have done their very best to keep things safe and not be a jerk in the process. Yes, i am sure people haven't done everything perfect, but they are trying their best in a sport that is largely VOLUNTEER!! All i want to say is be careful about how judgmental you are going to be on these RO's even if you feel like they are wrong or you disagree, they are just out there trying to do their best...
 
Pstmstr said:
It's solidified mine that we need more trained RO's. Anyone ready for my next scenario question?
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I would agree so there would be less confusion. Going to the class doesn't mean you have to RO just better SA especially at out of town matches.
 
TroyF said:
Yeah...10.5.5. That shooter swept his body with the muzzle. Unloaded or not. Course of fire wasnt finished because he had not yet holstered.

Is it a bad habit? Maybe. Beats covering the ejection port and jacking that round into your hand. I say, let it fly.
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Well, darn............was typing away and work called, oh well maybe next time

Wes
 
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