Open carry...again

[68camaro]

I see this has been covered more than a few times but times are rapidly changing and so do people's opinions.

I am NOT an advocate of open carry and maybe I can change a mind or two with this. For a little credibility, I am a Gulf War vet and had a total of 32 years in law enforcement. I'm a retired police chief and throughout my career was K9, SWAT sniper and point man, and firearms instructor.

I'll start with a question: Why do you feel the need to display a weapon? To show you can - to display your constitutional rights - to be a deterrent?

My argument is that you're simply making yourself a target! Do I open carry at times? Absolutely. But only when on my property (I live rurally) or among friends in the right place. I do believe it's our constitutional right to carry and I couldn't be more conservative, but the point is protection, not to be a billboard. Dealing with criminals for a career I got to speak with more than a few over the decades. I specifically asked (most were your run-of-the-mill people who just screwed up - but there are always a few who are way, way, off-center) I can assure you criminals like to see guns on people because they know it's there. Some say it's a deterrent but most say you're a target. You are now their center of attention and if someone has ill intentions they will either shoot you first or try to physically take you down first. Say something happens and you are not required to draw and/or shoot. You will have people who point you out and say you should have or should not have done something. Trust me, even if you do everything right you will become the center of SOMETHING whether it is right or wrong and whether you like it or not. At a minimum, you will most likely get caught up in social media hell, the news, and potentially some type of civil litigation.

Food for thought: If you are ever involved in a shooting - keep your mouth shut! No matter how nice the police are, simply say thank you or whatever may be appropriate but regarding the incident, tell them you would like to speak with an attorney before you give ANY statement. The only way they should implore you to speak is if they need information regarding the immediate circumstances, i.e., active shooter, fleeing suspect, hostages, etc. If the incident is over, speak with an attorney, ASAP. I'll maybe do another post or something at some point regarding CYA stuff.

Anywho, it seems to me if you weigh the two, I would much rather have it on me - and whether or not others learn that I do - is left up to me.

Be safe.

 

[Mike A1]

One little story from me youth.

I was coming back from hunting the south mtns & got turned around. With the old 300 V8 was running on fumes I came across a farm house.
Saw the big farm gas tank so off to buy some much needed gas. The big old farmer came to the door & I told him what I needed & he asked me to wait.

So he comes out with a 7.5" Ruger Super Blackhawk strapped to his hip. I thought at first, wow how stupid are you? What if I at 49 wanted that super Blackhawk? I already had one LOL. However just think of how he gave his hole card away by showing his defense weapon.
The element of surprise has won more fights than hollow points. Keep it to yourself, loose lips sink ships, be prepared, all good advice to win the fight.

I can assure you criminals like to see guns on people because they know it's there. Some say it's a deterrent but most say you're a target. You are now their center of attention and if someone has ill intentions they will either shoot you first or try to physically take you down first.

Being aware of what is going on around you will do a lot for your survival chances. Watch the watchers.

 

[Bob Lee]

I see this has been covered more than a few times but times are rapidly changing and so do people's opinions.

I am NOT an advocate of open carry and maybe I can change a mind or two with this. For a little credibility, I am a Gulf War vet and had a total of 32 years in law enforcement. I'm a retired police chief and throughout my career was K9, SWAT sniper and point man, and firearms instructor.

I'll start with a question: Why do you feel the need to display a weapon? To show you can - to display your constitutional rights - to be a deterrent?

My argument is that you're simply making yourself a target! Do I open carry at times? Absolutely. But only when on my property (I live rurally) or among friends in the right place. I do believe it's our constitutional right to carry and I couldn't be more conservative, but the point is protection, not to be a billboard. Dealing with criminals for a career I got to speak with more than a few over the decades. I specifically asked (most were your run-of-the-mill people who just screwed up - but there are always a few who are way, way, off-center) I can assure you criminals like to see guns on people because they know it's there. Some say it's a deterrent but most say you're a target. You are now their center of attention and if someone has ill intentions they will either shoot you first or try to physically take you down first. Say something happens and you are not required to draw and/or shoot. You will have people who point you out and say you should have or should not have done something. Trust me, even if you do everything right you will become the center of SOMETHING whether it is right or wrong and whether you like it or not. At a minimum, you will most likely get caught up in social media hell, the news, and potentially some type of civil litigation.

Food for thought: If you are ever involved in a shooting - keep your mouth shut! No matter how nice the police are, simply say thank you or whatever may be appropriate but regarding the incident, tell them you would like to speak with an attorney before you give ANY statement. The only way they should implore you to speak is if they need information regarding the immediate circumstances, i.e., active shooter, fleeing suspect, hostages, etc. If the incident is over, speak with an attorney, ASAP. I'll maybe do another post or something at some point regarding CYA stuff.

Anywho, it seems to me if you weigh the two, I would much rather have it on me - and whether or not others learn that I do - is left up to me.

Be safe.

Absolutely. Several years ago, I was in a restaurant, and two guys came in and waited to be seated. One was open carrying, and you could definitely see he was not comfortable with it. Keep trying to turn so people wouldn't see, didn't work. As far as I know no one noticed, or if so no one said anything. I do not open carry. My choice.

 

[Mike A1]

Although I guess it really depends on the tools you chose to use. Try to use a good drag bag with mat to transport them.

 

[Bob Lee]

Although I guess it really depends on the tools you chose to use. Try to use a good drag bag with mat to transport them.


View attachment 31660

I have one of those....I need a gun bearer lol

 

[68camaro]

Although I guess it really depends on the tools you chose to use. Try to use a good drag bag with mat to transport them.


View attachment 31660

My favorite rifle ever made!

 

[dennishoddy]

I see this has been covered more than a few times but times are rapidly changing and so do people's opinions.

I am NOT an advocate of open carry and maybe I can change a mind or two with this. For a little credibility, I am a Gulf War vet and had a total of 32 years in law enforcement. I'm a retired police chief and throughout my career was K9, SWAT sniper and point man, and firearms instructor.

I'll start with a question: Why do you feel the need to display a weapon? To show you can - to display your constitutional rights - to be a deterrent?

My argument is that you're simply making yourself a target! Do I open carry at times? Absolutely. But only when on my property (I live rurally) or among friends in the right place. I do believe it's our constitutional right to carry and I couldn't be more conservative, but the point is protection, not to be a billboard. Dealing with criminals for a career I got to speak with more than a few over the decades. I specifically asked (most were your run-of-the-mill people who just screwed up - but there are always a few who are way, way, off-center) I can assure you criminals like to see guns on people because they know it's there. Some say it's a deterrent but most say you're a target. You are now their center of attention and if someone has ill intentions they will either shoot you first or try to physically take you down first. Say something happens and you are not required to draw and/or shoot. You will have people who point you out and say you should have or should not have done something. Trust me, even if you do everything right you will become the center of SOMETHING whether it is right or wrong and whether you like it or not. At a minimum, you will most likely get caught up in social media hell, the news, and potentially some type of civil litigation.

Food for thought: If you are ever involved in a shooting - keep your mouth shut! No matter how nice the police are, simply say thank you or whatever may be appropriate but regarding the incident, tell them you would like to speak with an attorney before you give ANY statement. The only way they should implore you to speak is if they need information regarding the immediate circumstances, i.e., active shooter, fleeing suspect, hostages, etc. If the incident is over, speak with an attorney, ASAP. I'll maybe do another post or something at some point regarding CYA stuff.

Anywho, it seems to me if you weigh the two, I would much rather have it on me - and whether or not others learn that I do - is left up to me.

Be safe.

Sage advice.
I only open carry at the farm when working on implements as concealed is uncomfortable and not practical or when hunting.
My lawyer friend who is also a gun nut said that if ever in a SD shooting, secure the weapon, tell the officer that this person tried to kill me and I had to defend myself and then shut up.
Expect to go to jail and maybe spend the night before your attorney can arrange bail.
Don't answer any questions.
LEO's involved in a shooting situation are allowed 48 hours in most jurisdictions before filing a report.

 

[Mike A1]

Don't answer any questions.

Don't be a wise guy.
For heavens sake give them the spare mag.

 

[tomrkba]

Why do you feel the need to display a weapon? To show you can - to display your constitutional rights - to be a deterrent?

The assertion that one becomes a target is not really true. See below. Keep in mind we will never have accurate stats on this stuff. All these stories show is that it goes both ways.

We know from a few cases that open carry does deter crime IF AND ONLY IF the criminal notices beforehand. We also have several cases where armed robbers walked in front of someone OC'ing and were shot (I am thinking of one case in a convenience store where the robber was shot. OC'er had a cheap single action revolver that broke on the first shot, but was lucky and it was over). In another case, criminals were sitting in a car outside a restaurant. They were checking it out and a cop knew they were felons. He approached and circumstances resulted in the cop arresting them. They stated they were in the car waiting for an OC'er to leave.

Second, it is innoculation for the population. EVERY GUN OWNER should open carry at all times (the only sensitive place is a courthouse). The sheep need to get used to seeing weapons. One great side effect is that it acts as an "instant background check" for the viewer: they know the person is law abiding and is a lawful gun owner. Usually, cops know who most of the felons are in their area, can spot gang members, and that makes OC risky for criminals. Stupid, unarmed people are everywhere and they should get no say in this. Their "feelings" are irrelevant to the right. They should know that someone open carrying is a law abiding citizen.

Third, carry is more comfortable. OWB holsters are far better in this regard.

Finally, the draw is faster with no garments to clear.

Regarding "becoming a target". It is a fallacy because it goes both ways. It is the source of all these "OC vs CC" arguments. Carrying concealed makes one appear unarmed. An acquaintance of mine woke up in the hospital sans Glock 19, mags, phone and wallet after getting hit in the head by a baseball bat at a blind corner in Richmond, VA. Conversely, a man in Centreville, Va was relieved of his openly carried pistol by an armed robber one night. Nobody is safe regardless of circumstance.

The obvious solution is to open carry while carrying a small, concealed backup gun in the appendix position.

 

[Mike A1]

The obvious solution is to open carry while carrying a small, concealed backup gun in the appendix position

I only OC while hunting. The deer don't look at me any differently with my big mag on my chest.
However out & among the most cunning devious animal on earth, I never give away my edge.

The element of surprise must be with you. You must be aware of what is happening around you at all times.

Weapons only count, if you can & will use them on the enemy. Not having them used on you.




If I had to OC it would be nice to have a few of these LOL.

 

[tomrkba]

The element of surprise must be with you. You must be aware of what is happening around you at all times.

Absolutely impossible and the idea is a product of the gun industry. Merely fishing out keys and opening a door draws attention inward.

 

[joepistol]

I am a strong supporter for open carry.. Why ? Because I feel it's Constitutionally guaranteed.
IN my state, open carry is legal, though our "elected officials" wish it wasn't...and make attempts to exclude it at every opportunity.
I shouldn't have to jump thru hoops and /or get on a list, to obtain a concealed carry permit if I'm a law abiding gun owner.
Open carry allows one to be armed w/o being subjected to unnecessary government regulation/controls.
I love my country, but fear ( & don't trust) my government.

 

[DubbleURX]

The more carriers of firearms, the better, no matter the method.

Me? I wouldn't do open carry, but I'm not going to laugh at others that do it.

It's a personal choice, as with anything related to firearms. Do what works for you, don't worry about how the the guy across the aisle is carrying. We need to be less judgemental about ourselves as a group. You can bet the antis don't generally infight.

 

[joepistol]

Though I strongly support open carry, for the reason described, I don't practice it.
I do want & support the option to carry a firearm, concealed or not, w/o having to be "permitted" to do so

 

[JimCunn]

I carry, but don't think open carry is a good idea, so I don't do it.

 

[Big Biscuit]

I'm the Silent Grey Fellow

 

[Bob Lee]

I'm the Silent Grey Fellow

A wise choice. I try to be so too.

 

[Weisse52]

I'm the Silent Grey Fellow

It's my plan.

I do like being places and see people open carry. Gives people something to watch and ignore me.

 

[mm1911]

Young kid I shoot with, IDPA, USPSA, CPSL, 2 gun whatever, he and his wife open carries, both carry Glock 19's with optic, I say kid, mid thirties, I'm 68 so yeah kid to mehe's an amazing talent, master class IDPA and A class USPSA, shoot's what he carries, no fancy race gun, anyway I asked him about it and just what he thinks best for him and bride, not sure how long he's been carrying open, not my choice but they certainly are comfortable with it, to each his own I guess

 

[Vin]

I see this has been covered more than a few times but times are rapidly changing and so do people's opinions.

I am NOT an advocate of open carry and maybe I can change a mind or two with this. For a little credibility, I am a Gulf War vet and had a total of 32 years in law enforcement. I'm a retired police chief and throughout my career was K9, SWAT sniper and point man, and firearms instructor.

I'll start with a question: Why do you feel the need to display a weapon? To show you can - to display your constitutional rights - to be a deterrent?

My argument is that you're simply making yourself a target! Do I open carry at times? Absolutely. But only when on my property (I live rurally) or among friends in the right place. I do believe it's our constitutional right to carry and I couldn't be more conservative, but the point is protection, not to be a billboard. Dealing with criminals for a career I got to speak with more than a few over the decades. I specifically asked (most were your run-of-the-mill people who just screwed up - but there are always a few who are way, way, off-center) I can assure you criminals like to see guns on people because they know it's there. Some say it's a deterrent but most say you're a target. You are now their center of attention and if someone has ill intentions they will either shoot you first or try to physically take you down first. Say something happens and you are not required to draw and/or shoot. You will have people who point you out and say you should have or should not have done something. Trust me, even if you do everything right you will become the center of SOMETHING whether it is right or wrong and whether you like it or not. At a minimum, you will most likely get caught up in social media hell, the news, and potentially some type of civil litigation.

Food for thought: If you are ever involved in a shooting - keep your mouth shut! No matter how nice the police are, simply say thank you or whatever may be appropriate but regarding the incident, tell them you would like to speak with an attorney before you give ANY statement. The only way they should implore you to speak is if they need information regarding the immediate circumstances, i.e., active shooter, fleeing suspect, hostages, etc. If the incident is over, speak with an attorney, ASAP. I'll maybe do another post or something at some point regarding CYA stuff.

Anywho, it seems to me if you weigh the two, I would much rather have it on me - and whether or not others learn that I do - is left up to me.

Be safe.

Excellent advice, thanks for your service.