My 7.62 X 39 rifles : (another ) accuracy comparison.

[joepistol]

As some that read postings here may notice, I enjoy doing accuracy comparisons with my firearms...
I was interested in seeing which of my 7.62 X39 rifles is the most accurate. I should clarify that statement, and say which rifle I can shoot more accurately.
As always,... MY shooting a rifle may not indicate the rifle's most optimal accuracy. Though I might not shoot as well as I have in the past,
due to "advanced" age, or other excuses.. err.. explanations,... I enjoy shooting more, just because I can.
The candidates are:
1) a PSA 16" AR-15 upper, in that caliber on a Bushmaster lower, w/ a trigger job by my favorite gunsmith.
2) a Bear Creek Arsenal AR-15 16" rifle in that caliber with a CMC 3.5# drop-in trigger. ( a review written & posted here earlier)
3) a Ruger Mini 30 SS Ranch rifle, also with a trigger job by my favorite gunsmith.

'll admit the Ruger wasn't really in the game, as it lacks a bipod,which both the AR's have. The bipods help a lot in tightening my group size. Sandbag rests work about as well as a bipod, but I didn't bother to load mine in the truck for this outing.. Ruger groups were shot, but didn't bother saving the targets,. I should have, just for a comparison.
I do recall it's groups weren't as good as the AR's. The Ruger also has a older, lower power Weaver scope, than both the newer, higher powered Vortex scopes the AR's are wearing. I had not shot my Ruger since getting my PSA AR , then later adding the BCA, for its' side charging option. The Ruger was included only because 1) it's chambered in the same caliber, & 2) I haven't shot it since I got my Ar's..time to at least blow some dust from the barrel. I did succeed in accomplishing that.

Both AR's are favored because they have easily mounted bipods, the PSA also has a brass catcher attached, making it my go-to for most range use.
I've shot some of my tightest groups with that PSA upper/Bushmaster lower, the BCA has been too new to me to compare, until I performed this test.
Conclusion :
I actually conducted the test over 2 consecutive days, to r/o weather / too much coffee in the a.m. variables .
I discovered that I can shoot the BCA AR as accurately as my PSA..maybe a little better.
A surprise to me, as my prejudice would favor the PSA, as I've shot it more, & it's more "familiar" to me.

Wed Targets ...................... Target scale is white circle = 3/4" White square= 1"
PSA Target #1
5 shots

 

[joepistol]

BCA Target # 1 Target scale is white circle = 3/4" White square= 1"

10 shots

 

[joepistol]

Returned the next day

Thurs. Targets same ammo & Targets

PSA 12 shots

12 Shots fired

 

[joepistol]

Thurs. same Target & loads...17 shots fired.

I don't usually use the 3/4" circle as an aim point, too frustrating to hit all around it & not put any inside the circle.
I was running out of ammo, so shot at the circle with the BCA last, was happy with the results.

I enjoy these little comparisons I do @ my club range, & was impressed with my results.
If you haven't tried a comparison shoot -off with firearms you have, I encourage you to give it a try.

 

[barnetmill]

I have decided to stay away for the AR15 in 7,62x39 since the bolt is not really up to dealing with that round. the AR bolts tend to break extractors and lugs it is said with that chambering. The CMMG gun is different but it is an AR10 bolt.

 

[joepistol]

.." the bolt is not really up to dealing with that round."" I wonder what makes you think this ?

I've fired at least 5 hundred rds thru my AR w/o any incidents at all. My upper BCG is made by PSA, so it's got a good warranty, should any problem arise.

 

[barnetmill]

.." the bolt is not really up to dealing with that round."" I wonder what makes you think this ?

I've fired at least 5 hundred rds thru my AR w/o any incidents at all. My upper BCG is made by PSA, so it's got a good warranty, should any problem arise.

There has been a lot of discussion of this. Many photographs of fail 7.62x39 bolts. A military should be replace like 7-10K. russian bolts break more often. It is enough that I will go to 300 blackout. compare two bolts.

Extractors are prone to break and lugs are said to shear more frequently. It could be your bolt goes 10,000 round or something breaks tomorrow.
What i have done is to add an H3 buffer to my overgassed BCA upper to slow bolt carrier speed and that should prolong extractor life. It was ejecting close to 1 o'clock and now it is at about 5 o'clock. It also feeds better from all after market magazines now.

7.62X39 BOLTS > AR Discussions > AR15.COM

I have a new rifle I am building in 7.62x39. About half based on AR. AK mag with a very simple robust gas piston. I wanted an unbreakable bolt. I designed and made a few heavy 3 lug type bolts. Work

www.ar15.com

The LMT ACB has been around for over a decade and has modified lugs that are designed not to break. I have never broken one. I run 7.62x39 in full auto in 7.5 and 8" barrels.

I need to look into the LMT bolt.

Below failed 7.62 x39 bolts

 

[joepistol]

Thanks for posting this information,... I'll keep an eye out for an issue. I usually ckean my AR's more often than most & examine my bolt & associated parts closely My life may be over before I shoot 10K rds. thru my 7.62 X 39 AR. I might shoot 400-500 rds a year,( maybe less )through it. I have had issues with some of the PSA products I've purchased, but will add that the factory did make them right, after some prodding.

 

[barnetmill]

The bolt problems is a design issue in that it was made for a smaller cartridge head surface. A lot of material gets cut away. It seems that some say their bolts are better relieved or something or other. The major reason for having an AR upper in 7.62x39 is that I have bit of it purchased from before the biden sanctions ban. I am waiting for someone to make an AR upper in x39 with a AR10 diameter bolt that is compatible with a standard AR lower.

 

[BIGDAVE101]

As some that read postings here may notice, I enjoy doing accuracy comparisons with my firearms...
I was interested in seeing which of my 7.62 X39 rifles is the most accurate. I should clarify that statement, and say which rifle I can shoot more accurately.
As always,... MY shooting a rifle may not indicate the rifle's most optimal accuracy. Though I might not shoot as well as I have in the past,
due to "advanced" age, or other excuses.. err.. explanations,... I enjoy shooting more, just because I can.
The candidates are:
1) a PSA 16" AR-15 upper, in that caliber on a Bushmaster lower, w/ a trigger job by my favorite gunsmith.
2) a Bear Creek Arsenal AR-15 16" rifle in that caliber with a CMC 3.5# drop-in trigger. ( a review written & posted here earlier)
3) a Ruger Mini 30 SS Ranch rifle, also with a trigger job by my favorite gunsmith.

'll admit the Ruger wasn't really in the game, as it lacks a bipod,which both the AR's have. The bipods help a lot in tightening my group size. Sandbag rests work about as well as a bipod, but I didn't bother to load mine in the truck for this outing.. Ruger groups were shot, but didn't bother saving the targets,. I should have, just for a comparison.
I do recall it's groups weren't as good as the AR's. The Ruger also has a older, lower power Weaver scope, than both the newer, higher powered Vortex scopes the AR's are wearing. I had not shot my Ruger since getting my PSA AR , then later adding the BCA, for its' side charging option. The Ruger was included only because 1) it's chambered in the same caliber, & 2) I haven't shot it since I got my Ar's..time to at least blow some dust from the barrel. I did succeed in accomplishing that.

Both AR's are favored because they have easily mounted bipods, the PSA also has a brass catcher attached, making it my go-to for most range use.
I've shot some of my tightest groups with that PSA upper/Bushmaster lower, the BCA has been too new to me to compare, until I performed this test.
Conclusion :
I actually conducted the test over 2 consecutive days, to r/o weather / too much coffee in the a.m. variables .
I discovered that I can shoot the BCA AR as accurately as my PSA..maybe a little better.
A surprise to me, as my prejudice would favor the PSA, as I've shot it more, & it's more "familiar" to me.

Wed Targets ...................... Target scale is white circle = 3/4" White square= 1"
PSA Target #1
View attachment 325505 shots

Why no AK47 style???

 

[joepistol]

Not a fan of Commie made guns..though some may have a greater degree of accuracy, most are what I'd call "bullet sprayers"...
I am curious why some would want an AK, as they're way more expensive than an AR, not as easy to modify, and then there's the accuracy thing.
I've had no interest in an AK.. or any of their clones

 

[barnetmill]

Not a fan of Commie made guns..though some may have a greater degree of accuracy, most are what I'd call "bullet sprayers"...
I am curious why some would want an AK, as they're way more expensive than an AR, not as easy to modify, and then there's the accuracy thing.
I've had no interest in an AK.. or any of their clones

When I purchased my AK they were running about 250 to 350 dollars for imported guns. Now the AR-15 in 5.56 is the easy button for a lot of reasons. I still have an AK and a SKS.
First I purchased a SKS for $100 just because. I was impressed with its performance. So I finally purchased a politically correct Mak 90 AKM during the begining of the Clinton-biden '94 assault weapons bill and was impressed. Accuracy improved when I tightened the loose front sight.

 

[Mike A]

My 7.62 X 39 mm launchers.

SKS D takes AK mags, Papa Bush banned it.

ROOOGER.

 

[Old Bill]

Rather than comment directly on AK accuracy.. I think it would be more fun to post the below article for those fellas interested to read and then reflect upon the Cultural origins of Marksmenship and how it affects design, expectations and results..

What?

What drove the AK design?
What drives the AR design?

No small part of the answer is based upon experiences.

It all started here.

What Made the Kentucky Rifle So Great? - Outdoor Revival

Oh and for the record.. Trying to make a point to go practice marksmenship on the 4th of July one time resulted in running into some fellas that were shooting a Kentucky Long Rifle... After firing a few rounds as their guest. I almost felt sorry for the British Soldier or Officer during the American Revolution or the War of 1812 facing such a deadly accurate beast.


I wonder where this will go?



"Cult of the Dummy Cord"

 

[joepistol]

An interesting article, filled with info I didn't know..thanks for posting it.

 

[rmc51]

An interesting article, filled with info I didn't know..thanks for posting it.

Here is some more info.

There many be problems with some manufacturers 762x39 BCG I do not know all of them. but Spikes Tactical's bcg is lifetime warranty.

7.62x39 Spike's Bolt Assembly- Nickel Boron

A high quality bolt is a must in any AR-15. Whether you need a spare bolt or are looking to upgrade an existing rifle, look no further.

www.spikestactical.com

7.62x39 Spike's Bolt Assembly- Black Nitrite

A high quality bolt is a must in any AR-15. Whether you need a spare bolt or are looking to upgrade an existing rifle, look no further.

www.spikestactical.com

Warranty Information - Spikes Tactical

Spike’s Tactical products have always been designed and built to the higher standards demanded by the discriminating consumer. To clearly demonstrate that Spike’s Tactical products offer world-class quality, Spike’s Tactical offers a full lifetime warranty on all Spike’s Tactical built products...

www.spikestactical.com

Quote:
Spike's Tactical products have always been designed and built to the higher standards demanded by the discriminating consumer. To clearly demonstrate that Spike's Tactical products offer world-class quality, Spike's Tactical offers a full lifetime warranty on all Spike's Tactical built products. The lifetime warranty will remain in full force and effect as long as Spike's Tactical is still in operation.

The lifetime warranty covers any manufacturing defects that may render the product unsafe, inoperable, out of spec, to include cosmetic defects from the factory. Cosmetic defects are only covered for the first 10 days from the original shipping date from Spike's Tactical. It is your responsibility to thoroughly inspect your order from Spike's Tactical and let us know immediately if there is an issue. Cosmetic issues occurring outside the 10-day window will be addressed on a case-by-case basis.

"Please note that due to the day-to-day variations of anodizing black-dye tanks, a slight variation in the color black is normal and expected."

Should you find any of the above issues with your Spike's Tactical products we will repair or replace the product to meet Spike's Tactical Industry Standards. There is no need to cut any Spike's Tactical products into pieces should you find them to be out of spec. Although, we have been known to offer to replace products cut up by a specific customer, we find that a simple phone call is a more efficient way of resolving an issue.


I have seen Spikes replace firing pins, gas rings even!! If their bolt fails you call JohnD and he will replace it. Once he gets to know someone we may not even have you send back the broken part and may just ask for a photo of it.

Call Kat and check on the price. They sometimes have sales that they do not advertise. Pick up a complete BCG and a spare and you are covered. 762x39 and 556 bolts.
I have seen places like Joebob's or Primary Arms or AIMS have had their bcg as low as $99 on sale but most of the time they are $119-$129 on sale with LT warranty.

The people that I know that are running Spikes bcg's very seldom have a problem with them and if you have a spare and a problem slam the spare in and call JohnD.

https://www.spikestactical.com/shipping-returns/

 

[rmc51]

There has been a lot of discussion of this. Many photographs of fail 7.62x39 bolts. A military should be replace like 7-10K. russian bolts break more often. It is enough that I will go to 300 blackout. compare two bolts.
View attachment 32563
Extractors are prone to break and lugs are said to shear more frequently. It could be your bolt goes 10,000 round or something breaks tomorrow.
What i have done is to add an H3 buffer to my overgassed BCA upper to slow bolt carrier speed and that should prolong extractor life. It was ejecting close to 1 o'clock and now it is at about 5 o'clock. It also feeds better from all after market magazines now.

I need to look into the LMT bolt.

Below failed 7.62 x39 bolts

View attachment 32564

That problem was fixed about 15 years ago. Maybe someday I will tell you about that.

 

[joepistol]

Well, my 7.62 X 39 AR is a PSA product.. (probably the best PSA product I've purchased)
Though I has some difficulty with a warranty issue on the 1st PSA AR I bought ( a 223 /5.56 kit, containing everything except a stripped lower receiver) they did send a return shipping label & did something to the rifle, the communication was sadly lacking..never was told what, if anything, was done.
My gunsmith advised polishing the chamber, as he believed my extraction/feeding issues were caused by that condition. He explained how to polish it, & I followed his instructions, issue got better. I repeated the process another time or 2 & eventually the problem was resolved.
I must also say that PSA, in years since, has greatly improved their customer service / warranty work.
Had an issue with a PA-10 bolt ( PSA version of AR-10) they sent out a replacement soon after I sent them mine.
Some time later, I had gas rings wear, called them & they sent a small pkg. with several extras.
PSA does have a lifetime warranty on their products, & I plan on using it for my lifetime.
My 7.62 X 39 AR hasn't needed anything yet...I shoot it fairly often, as it's suprisingly accurate

 

[rmc51]

There has been a lot of discussion of this. Many photographs of fail 7.62x39 bolts. A military should be replace like 7-10K. russian bolts break more often. It is enough that I will go to 300 blackout. compare two bolts.
View attachment 32563
Extractors are prone to break and lugs are said to shear more frequently. It could be your bolt goes 10,000 round or something breaks tomorrow.
What i have done is to add an H3 buffer to my overgassed BCA upper to slow bolt carrier speed and that should prolong extractor life. It was ejecting close to 1 o'clock and now it is at about 5 o'clock. It also feeds better from all after market magazines now.

I need to look into the LMT bolt.

Below failed 7.62 x39 bolts

View attachment 32564

I have never seen an Armalite 762x39 fail.

 

[rmc51]

Well, my 7.62 X 39 AR is a PSA product.. (probably the best PSA product I've purchased)
Though I has some difficulty with a warranty issue on the 1st PSA AR I bought ( a 223 /5.56 kit, containing everything except a stripped lower receiver) they did send a return shipping label & did something to the rifle, the communication was sadly lacking..never was told what, if anything, was done.
My gunsmith advised polishing the chamber, as he believed my extraction/feeding issues were caused by that condition. He explained how to polish it, & I followed his instructions, issue got better. I repeated the process another time or 2 & eventually the problem was resolved.
I must also say that PSA, in years since, has greatly improved their customer service / warranty work.
Had an issue with a PA-10 bolt ( PSA version of AR-10) they sent out a replacement soon after I sent them mine.
Some time later, I had gas rings wear, called them & they sent a small pkg. with several extras.
PSA does have a lifetime warranty on their products, & I plan on using it for my lifetime.
My 7.62 X 39 AR hasn't needed anything yet...I shoot it fairly often, as it's suprisingly accurate

Joe:
Is the lifetime warranty to the original owner or the part? If you sell that gun to someone does the lifetime warranty go with the gun to the next owner?