Jim cirillo's point of view

[boatdoc]

I have been reading one of Jim Cirillos books about guns,bullets.... He has a VERY interesting take on guns and the right kind of ammunition needed to take down a threat.

he modified revolvers using Dan Wesson barrels and shrouds( not available to my knowledge today) and brings up some interesting points about carry guns and ammo.

He fabricated an amazing bullet. His book related stories of shots deflected by commercial JHP ammo and ones that were one or 2 shot stops with his ammo . His main point was that FMJ ammo and JHP ammo make easily closed pepentrations in flesh(if they can get through winter clothes...). his ammo made gaping holes that did not close

Granted he did his own research and handloading. I use commercially available ammunition so I cannot copy or buy his exact loads and bullet types. I am wondering if th eJHP ammo I have chosen( federal hydrashok 9mm and .45 acp) will stop a threat in my home.

I am also considering switching to a revolver of a higher caliber( he suggests 41 mag or 44 mag). I am thinking a 10mm might be a good choice of power and recoil( easier to handle) I need to research this some more befor e I commit.

Just wanted to know what our members think about this(penetration, opening gaping wounds vs smaller channels,use of hot loads(+P)


anyone with experience? opinions are welcome too . it certainly is an eye opening read.

 

[Busa Dave]

I have shot many live targets including too many feral hogs to count with handguns most in traps at 15 feet or so. No substitute for a big hole, cause by a larger caliber bullet. I have to agree with your assessment in that I do prefer the 10mm with full power loads. As you know I am quite fond of the 454 as well in a short barrel revolver BUT they do have a fierce muzzle blast and FLASH! The best thing about the 10mm while there is muzzle blast being a automatic there is no cylinder for gas to leak and flash in the dark.

 

[ZoidMeister]

I used to own a .41 Magnum in my youth. It's an amazing caliber. The punch of a .45 with the speed of a .357. It's unfortunate it has fallen out of favor.

The closest you will find would be Buffalo Bore 10mm hard cast lead. Another amazing round.

Z

 

[boatdoc]

I used to own a .41 Magnum in my youth. It's an amazing caliber. The punch of a .45 with the speed of a .357. It's unfortunate it has fallen out of favor.

The closest you will find would be Buffalo Bore 10mm hard cast lead. Another amazing round.

Z

thanks Zoid. I am leaning 10mm for now. that round would do the trick. it is fun on the range too. + I cans hoot 40 S+W through it.

I have a thing for revolvers anyway. So having a variety of calibers is just what the doctor ordered

 

[Mike Galway]

Elmer Kieth wrote quite a bit about this subject . He preferred hard cast semi wadcutters for penetration in bear country . In a home defense situation you wouldn't want over penetration for fear of a through and through . I use Hornady Critical defense . Bullet choice comes back to primary use .

 

[boatdoc]

Elmer Kieth wrote quite a bit about this subject . He preferred hard cast semi wadcutters for penetration in bear country . In a home defense situation you wouldn't want over penetration for fear of a through and through . I use Hornady Critical defense . Bullet choice comes back to primary use .

thanks Mike. Might read some of Elmers books next. education is king

 

[tomrkba]

Cirillo's bullet had lots of potential for self defense, but they wouldn't sell the patent so no company picked it up.

 

[boatdoc]

shot some 10mm fmj and jhp 180 gr. that stuff is great, accurate and powerful. I think I have a winner for now

 

[xusmico]

I have been reading one of Jim Cirillos books about guns,bullets.... He has a VERY interesting take on guns and the right kind of ammunition needed to take down a threat.

he modified revolvers using Dan Wesson barrels and shrouds( not available to my knowledge today) and brings up some interesting points about carry guns and ammo.

He fabricated an amazing bullet. His book related stories of shots deflected by commercial JHP ammo and ones that were one or 2 shot stops with his ammo . His main point was that FMJ ammo and JHP ammo make easily closed pepentrations in flesh(if they can get through winter clothes...). his ammo made gaping holes that did not close

Granted he did his own research and handloading. I use commercially available ammunition so I cannot copy or buy his exact loads and bullet types. I am wondering if th eJHP ammo I have chosen( federal hydrashok 9mm and .45 acp) will stop a threat in my home.

I am also considering switching to a revolver of a higher caliber( he suggests 41 mag or 44 mag). I am thinking a 10mm might be a good choice of power and recoil( easier to handle) I need to research this some more befor e I commit.

Just wanted to know what our members think about this(penetration, opening gaping wounds vs smaller channels,use of hot loads(+P)


anyone with experience? opinions are welcome too . it certainly is an eye opening read.

THE NEW HYDRA SHOCK IS A GREAT ROUND. super vel is back in the game. back in the day my go to 9mm was corbon. best at the time. 1st 3 round were nato ball, the rest corbon 115. baal punched through skinnys like a ice pick. 1 high chest (top 1/3 of the sterum) with the corbon dropped the in their tracks. biggest fastest bullet you can use accuretly and fast without over penertration is the best you can do. shot placement!!! my carry now is 147 +p hp federal. 45 ACP 185 +p

 

[boatdoc]

THE NEW HYDRA SHOCK IS A GREAT ROUND. super vel is back in the game. back in the day my go to 9mm was corbon. best at the time. 1st 3 round were nato ball, the rest corbon 115. baal punched through skinnys like a ice pick. 1 high chest (top 1/3 of the sterum) with the corbon dropped the in their tracks. biggest fastest bullet you can use accurately and fast without over penetration is the best you can do. shot placement!!! my carry now is 147 +p hp federal. 45 ACP 185 +p

I have 9mm and 45 eithe r hst or hydra shock. they work the best IMHO.
placement is the key but with adrenaline running, perp moving, heart racing... it gets harder. Jim also said that wadcutter( or swc) leaVE holes that do not close down like FMJ or JHP (as they penetrate the holes can c lose down, thus the loss of blood is not as great as it would be with SWC or Wadcutter rounds. I

 

[xusmico]

i agree, those are my carry loads. Jeff Cooper favored a SWC, for the same reasons (1985). bullet design is a lot better now more than ever. i think like a dangerous game hunter, big heavy bullets shot placement. after a few gunfights, you learn if you can control and harness the rush of adrenaline. some people never get over it. good luck

 

[ZoidMeister]

Dunno, man . . . . David did pretty good with a leather strap and a few rocks against that Philistine dude . . . . you know what I'm saying . . . . ?

THE NEW HYDRA SHOCK IS A GREAT ROUND. super vel is back in the game. back in the day my go to 9mm was corbon. best at the time. 1st 3 round were nato ball, the rest corbon 115. baal punched through skinnys like a ice pick. 1 high chest (top 1/3 of the sterum) with the corbon dropped the in their tracks. biggest fastest bullet you can use accuretly and fast without over penertration is the best you can do. shot placement!!! my carry now is 147 +p hp federal. 45 ACP 185 +p

i agree, those are my carry loads. Jeff Cooper favored a SWC, for the same reasons (1985). bullet design is a lot better now more than ever. i think like a dangerous game hunter, big heavy bullets shot placement. after a few gunfights, you learn if you can control and harness the rush of adrenaline. some people never get over it. good luck

 

[Buck Buck]

Fair Hamlet Squire of Tomfoolery,
Good call on that battle - clearly he practiced and had shot skills, so rock caliber was NOT the end all. Also he was on God's side and you cannot ask for a better wingman! So together they took down an 8 foot giant, with body armor!

As a matter of interest, our sport should include rock slinging at some competitions. Bows & arrows, knives, axe throwing; they all get a 'shot' so why not slings???

 

[ZoidMeister]

Fair Hamlet Squire of Tomfoolery,
Good call on that battle - clearly he practiced and had shot skills, so rock caliber was NOT the end all. Also he was on God's side and you cannot ask for a better wingman! So together they took down an 8 foot giant, with body armor!

As a matter of interest, our sport should include rock slinging at some competitions. Bows & arrows, knives, axe throwing; they all get a 'shot' so why not slings???

And then there is modern asymmetric warfare. Some of us are wielding chemical agents of the anal vapour variety. Those cannot be discounted in disabling a foe . . .

 

[Buck Buck]

Since the thread was on 'solid projectiles', chemical warfare does not lend itself to competition. Also with gas masks, penetration is easily stopped. Although it does have the advantage of deep concealment AND stealth, catching an opponent off-guard.I

And now back to your regularly scheduled thread!

Hornady Critical Defense and Ruger ARX by Polycase both make good home defense rounds; and Federal Hydrashok too. All good home defense choices - imo and research...

 

[Buck Buck]

p.s.
per Geneva convention, the weapons protocol prohibits use of chemical warfare in "international armed conflicts".
Seems that does not cover home defense within the borders of sovereign Hamlets of Tomfoolery. Please consult your own legal counsel on int'l armaments prior to use.

 

[STI]

In a far away land yrs ago walking with a recently acquired M2 that was about new but so light to carry and fun to shoot an individual was encountered with a machete intent of doing harm to myself and officer Nance, when we were very sure we had an issue going bad an entire magazine was expended into the chest area he fell but pulled a P35 HiPower on us, my Capt then had his 1911 out and fired at about 10 yds 5 shots which stopped the situation, now the other part, Charles had parachute strips wrapped around him with small bamboo interwoven in it, 4-5 layers of them very few of the 30 cal rounds penetrated that almost none, all the 45 ball did! Scared, surprised and very lucky. The last ball round went high in a vital spot ending the situation all penetrated the bamboo/nylon. I did ask where were you shooting? At him!

 

[boatdoc]

And then there is modern asymmetric warfare. Some of us are wielding chemical agents of the anal vapour variety. Those cannot be discounted in disabling a foe . . .

pit bull gas might stop them....it make syour eyes tear up and throat close and..MELTS your nose!

 

[ZoidMeister]

My dog must be 3/4 pit bull . . . . never, and I mean NEVER, feed her egg salad . . .

I however, am 108% pit bull . . . .

Z

 

[boatdoc]

choose your poison( first dog-Murray is the one most likely to stop you from breathing