Heavy Metal! Irons VS Optics

[McGuire]

So I was doing some reading in the USPSA rule book and apparently the new HM division for tactical optics allows Auto Shotgun, .40 or larger, and optics on your rifle.

My question is why...

Why are they blurring the lines between the Minor PF guys and the HM guys? The HM division isnt the most popular and maybe this is a ploy to try and attract some more competitors to the division. However, that seems a little too far to me, the reduction in caliber of pistol and allowance of auto shotgun. I know many people are going to say, "well if you dont like it then dont shoot it", and to you I say, What if I want to shoot a scope on my rifle, but I dont want to compete with the auto loading shotgun, I guess thats my main beef there. While its not hard to be fast with a pump, its just not AS fast as an autoloader, at least not for this compadre. It also forces those who want to compete in that bracket to use an auto shotgun to be compeititive, unless your kurt miller or trapr swonson. anyone else got 2 cents on this one?

 

[Mitch Rapp]

So, if I understand this right, using a pump shotgun will now be purely a handicap? Seems to me that they are blurring the lines a bit too much....

 

[technetium-99m]

I believe HM optics is a stand alone division apart from HM. But you're right, it further dilutes the pool when it really can't stand anymore dilution. There's a post from uncle Kurt somewhere stating his feelings about allowing autos in HM (he's for it). I think the OKCGC rules were amended to allow autos in HM. Also some interesting reading on mag fed shotguns in the other divisions.

 

[Wall]

I guess I have more of a problem with the reduction in pistol caliber that I do with pump vs. auto for the shotgun.

 

[McGuire]

I think I like the idea of a pump shotgun over an auto mainly because it gives the competition a different set of skills to develop, it maybe subtle but the nuances of a pump are very different from an automatic to me. I like that, I like that I get to change the game up. Why would I want to dilute that? For me that whole point of shooting competitively is to sharpen my skills and broaden my horizons as it were, so why would I want to fall back into whats convienient or comfortable, no one ever grows and enriches themselves by staying in the same stagnant mindset.

 

[technetium-99m]

I see where you're coming from, but consider this. Many people look at practical shooting as a way to develop and vet new firearms and accessories. I look at auto shotguns as a better tool than pumps, practical shooting has proven this concept. I see a great potential in mag fed shotguns, practical shooting has not shown that they are better than tube fed autos yet. I would like to see where mag fed shotguns can go, and I'd like to see them sans dots and comps allowed in limited/tactical to Foster their development. That being said I also like restricted divisions like Production/SS/HM for what they are, everyone using a specific type of gear that has its own little nuances to compete with each other.

 

[jtischauser]

At the major matches it is often difficult to get 10 shooters in Heavy Optics. In Heavy Irons you might see 3-5. It is NOT a ploy it IS a blatant attempt to keep a division from dying.

 

[jtischauser]

I guess I have more of a problem with the reduction in pistol caliber that I do with pump vs. auto for the shotgun.

Everybody has a Limited .40 from the USPSA pistol matches. It takes away from the Heavyness of the guns but its still Heavy because the rest of us shoot 9mm in 3 gun. I bet we see USPSA so away with the major minor BS for the tacitcal and limited 3 gun divisions soon too.

 

[technetium-99m]

At the major matches it is often difficult to get 10 shooters in Heavy Optics. In Heavy Irons you might see 3-5. It is NOT a ploy it IS a blatant attempt to keep a division from dying.

Is HM really that low on participation?

 

[McGuire]

Well at OKC last match I was the only one...There are a few of us who are interested and some who have shot it, but compared to the vast majority, its a minute percentage.

 

[jtischauser]

Is HM really that low on participation?

Obviously it all depends but last year at Ozark there were only 9 in HO. So they didn't meet the 10 shooter minimum to field a 3 gun nation shoot off shooter. That's when my boy Kalani "All Day" Laker from Team Stag Arms got the nod sitting in 5th place in Tac Optics.

I suspect it may get worse this year with 3GN forcing everyone to shoot little Guns for 3-5 matches.

 

[bigbrowndog]

who cares what USPSA does, they do not put on a decent MAJOR match. The only downside is that others "may" follow what they say. But the watering down of divisions is nothing new!!! a major from last year allowed 6.5Grendel to compete in HMO, a major this year is allowing ANY 30 cal that makes USPSA's weak PF floor of 320, to be HM.

Its not an attempt to bolster a division up, its an attempt to wipe it out, you do not increase participation in a division by making more divisions. and on Kurt allowing auto SG's in HM, that was something he wanted to do when it was in its infancy, and he was voted down by the shooters that shot the division, sadly these days those decisions are made by BoD's and not the shooters. Personally if I didn't have to be a member of the association to shoot overseas I wouldn't, and I know the other RNT partner feels the same way, just ask us how much they have helped with WSG.

Trapr

 

[shootingbuff]

I grew up with the concept of Heavy Metal / He Man was and is just that. Step up or step back.

 

[jtischauser]

I still like the idea of an annual Heavy Metal only match like the folks at Rocky Mountain are doing. Maybe we can do a match at OKC GC that promotes HM.

 

[P.E. Kelley]

who cares what USPSA does, they do not put on a decent MAJOR match. The only downside is that others "may" follow what they say. But the watering down of divisions is nothing new!!! a major from last year allowed 6.5Grendel to compete in HMO, a major this year is allowing ANY 30 cal that makes USPSA's weak PF floor of 320, to be HM.

Its not an attempt to bolster a division up, its an attempt to wipe it out, you do not increase participation in a division by making more divisions. and on Kurt allowing auto SG's in HM, that was something he wanted to do when it was in its infancy, and he was voted down by the shooters that shot the division, sadly these days those decisions are made by BoD's and not the shooters. Personally if I didn't have to be a member of the association to shoot overseas I wouldn't, and I know the other RNT partner feels the same way, just ask us how much they have helped with WSG.

Trapr

I am with you mister!

 

[McGuire]

I still like the idea of an annual Heavy Metal only match like the folks at Rocky Mountain are doing. Maybe we can do a match at OKC GC that promotes HM.

That would be awesome, sort of a back woods revival of the He-Man division, Im all in

 

[threegungeezer]

Let me know when and I'll try to make it but I like to shoot a scope because I can't see that well anymore :blink: but am all for pump and .45.

 

[McGuire]

For sure, Why dont we just run a Heavy Metal with Irons and Optics rifle optional Div. That simplifies the rest of it, stay with a pump and .45 and just add the option of a scope on your rifle.

 

[argyle64]

I don't mean to hijack but I still don't know what the Heavy Metal matches are and what they involve. Anyone is free to explain them to me. Thanks.

 

[threegungeezer]

Heavy Metal is simply a classification(class) in 3gun, usually using a .308(7.62x51) as the minimum rifle calibre, a .45 pistol(10round max) and a 12 guage pump action(8+1)shotgun.

Alan