barnetmill
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I search the trash at the shooting range for empty boxes
Gunpowder prices are rising
- Thread starter joepistol
- Start date
joepistol
Well-Known Fanatic
" I search the trash at the shooting range for empty boxes"
I used to do the same..had /have a large amount of brass in various calibers, started collecting ammo boxes & the Styrofoam /plastic round holders
so I could store the cases after they were loaded. had to stop doing this ,as I collected too many! Most shooters @ my club don't reload or save brass,
throw empties in the range brass bucket, or just leave it lying on the ground
Stopped picking up brass in 9mm, 380, 40, 223, & 308 as have more than I'll ever use. I used to buy plastic ammo storage boxes for my
loads until I realized I could re-use factory ammo boxes, after picking them up to "recycle"
I used to do the same..had /have a large amount of brass in various calibers, started collecting ammo boxes & the Styrofoam /plastic round holders
so I could store the cases after they were loaded. had to stop doing this ,as I collected too many! Most shooters @ my club don't reload or save brass,
throw empties in the range brass bucket, or just leave it lying on the ground
Stopped picking up brass in 9mm, 380, 40, 223, & 308 as have more than I'll ever use. I used to buy plastic ammo storage boxes for my
loads until I realized I could re-use factory ammo boxes, after picking them up to "recycle"
Wormydog1724
ATAS Ninja
Yep. Welcome to the gd Biden's America with free money. And now we're all paying for it.
joepistol
Well-Known Fanatic
A sale flier /email arrived from Midsouth Shooters this a.m. with a code good for free hazmat on $99.00 order for powder or primers.
Looked at a few powders I need / want..none in stock.
I was loading a batch of 40's yesterday & noticed the price on the powder ( HS-6 ) was marked $179 / 8# container.
I've had the powder for ? time, remembering the price, I looked at the current price on Midsouth..same 8# container is now $303.99
One could say price has gone up..
Looked at a few powders I need / want..none in stock.
I was loading a batch of 40's yesterday & noticed the price on the powder ( HS-6 ) was marked $179 / 8# container.
I've had the powder for ? time, remembering the price, I looked at the current price on Midsouth..same 8# container is now $303.99
One could say price has gone up..
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Like everything else, prices are going out of sight. I expect much steeper price increases this year, especially for powders. It seems that the 2 countries that provide a large percentage of the worlds nitrocellulose, a main ingredient in powder, are Russia and China. Russia is off the market and China has implemented export restrictions. As powder supplies deplete, there's no limit in sight for how high powder prices could rise.
I'm sure that Biden's handlers have a lot to do with the whole situation. They desperately want to disarm us so they can kill us. Us true Americans will not let that happen as long as we have breath in our bodies. MAGA
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dennishoddy
Moderator
Hey @Wormydog1724, How's it going these days? Haven't seen you online since the BoomerShooter days.
barnetmill
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I may be wrong on this, but I was under the impression that nitrocellulose and also nitroglycerin, the primary energetics used to make civilian grade smokeless powders were made on site from nitric and sulfuric acids; These acids are used to nitrate cellulose and glycerin. But there are lot things that I do not know for sure. I have done cleanup work in army ammunition plants and was familiar with how it was done. Of course these plants were in operation years ago and things could of changed.
Supply and Demand
What has changed is that the demand for ammunition and components like smokeless powder have skyrocketed way above supply.
Hodgdon and the other few companies making powder are just charging what the market will sustain.
I looked up nitrocellulite and could not find it. There is collodion also. I think at one time low percentage nitrocellulose was called I think?? nitrocellodion and was used to make film and other products. It is quite flamable and perhaps could be nitrated to a higher percentage to make smokeless powder.
Do you have a source for the lack of nitrocellulite driving up the retail price of power?
Southern Shooter
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Concerning the Alliant powder price increases. Vista Outdoor, the company that bought the Remington ammunition from the bankruptcy sale, sent out emails to all their customers telling them that all prices were going up January 1, 2024. They said they were anticipating a global shortage of gunpowder due to all the fighting going on overseas. They own a lot of the ammo brands; Remington, Federal, Speer, CCI, Hevi Shot, Estate Cartridges, and Alliant Powder. They also said that they donated 1 million rounds of ammunition to Ukraine to be fulfilled by March 2024. I don't know for sure, but I have a sneaking feeling the price increases are to make up for that huge donation. Here's another probable reason that I copied from another article.
Vista Outdoor agrees to sell ammunition business in $1.91 billion deal
Published October 16, 2023
Vista Outdoor, which is planning on spinning off its outdoor sports business unit into a separate company this year, will sell off its shooting sports businesses first in a $1.91 billion deal with Czechoslovak Group a.s. ("CSG"). CSG is acquiring four factories and the consumer brands CCI, Federal, HEVI-Shot, Remington and Speer.
CZ bought Dan Wesson and look what the price of a Dan Wesson 1911 rose to after that. If I'm not mistaken, CZ also bought Colt back in February of 2021.
I misspelled it, LOL. The story below came from a buyer for a sporting goods store that attended the SHOT show.
"I met with the people from the factories we work with, factory sales people, factory directors and owners, importers, etc. The big point of discussion was the shortness in supply for nitrocellulose, which is the raw material used to make gunpowder and other propellants and explosives. Based on these conversations, the issue seems to be based on 2 factors: decreased availability in the supply chain, and increased demand for the manufacturing of military ordnance. A huge percentage of the nitrocellulose used to make gunpowder historically comes from China and Russia, however according to my conversations with industry partners, the Chinese manufacturers who were the biggest suppliers at over 30% of the market share are no longer willing to ship raw nitrocellulose to the USA or NATO member countries in attempt to reduce the USA and NATO's ability to supply Ukrainian forces with artillery shells, and of course Russia who historically was the 2nd biggest supplier is out of the supply chain as well. This decrease in supply in raw material has gunpowder manufacturers in the USA raising prices dramatically and cutting off many of the smaller ammo manufacturers. The 2nd part of this issue is the demand for military ordnance, which use huge quantities of gunpowder propellants. They always put the US government's needs before those of the commercial market, and it is simply more profitable to manufacture military ordnance than it is small caliber ammunition. At this time most of the factories seem to have gunpowder stockpiled, but this issue is expected to catch up to them no later than the summer of 2024 and possibly within a few months, and when it does it will mean the factories will be capable of producing much less small caliber ammunition to sell to the US commercial market. If demand for ammo is low to moderate, you may not see a big change, but if demand were to go way up as it does periodically, the factories will not be able to ramp up capacity to fill that demand. In my opinion, a lot could go wrong in the commercial ammo supply chain in 2024 and it would be wise to stock up sooner than later as 2024 price increases have just started to set in on just a handful of select items so far, and availability is still good which has held prices down temporarily."
barnetmill
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I looked up imports and what I saw was nitrocellulose coming from other countries. But as you say the other non-chinese sources might not be enough. The powder plant that I spent some time at had many years ago shut down the areas that made nitrocellulose and this entire army ammunition plant in kansas was to be demolished. Making nitrocellulose is a dangerous process. Field mice have been known to get into a production building to make nests out of it. When fibers are dry they become super-sensitive. They ship it wet or at least in some sort of inert liquid. Now days with Osha and EPA it likely takes a while to set up production the USA. So if the industry is dependent on foreign sources for raw product, yes I can see smokeless powder being in short supply.
I hang around the cast boolits forum and some of those guys are making their own black powder. If you have a revolver in 32, 38/357, 44-40 or special/magnum, or .45 colt you can use them with BP and cast bullets. The only rifle I have that can efficiently use black powder is my 54 cal TC cap lock.
So for the smokeless that I have it will be for ammunition that is very expensive to buy. For 9mm and 5.56 intended for range ammo I will continue to buy the cheaper ball loadings off the internet.
I hang around the cast boolits forum and some of those guys are making their own black powder. If you have a revolver in 32, 38/357, 44-40 or special/magnum, or .45 colt you can use them with BP and cast bullets. The only rifle I have that can efficiently use black powder is my 54 cal TC cap lock.
So for the smokeless that I have it will be for ammunition that is very expensive to buy. For 9mm and 5.56 intended for range ammo I will continue to buy the cheaper ball loadings off the internet.
barnetmill
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PS I will be loading .45 ACP. It can use cast bullets, does not need so much bullseye or similar fast powders that I have on hand and loaded .45 ACP rounds are expensive to buy.
barnetmill
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This the link on the nitrocellulose shortage.
https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/gunpowder-a-possible-shortage/58221
It is by the owner of SGAmmo that is known for tying to panic the public.
A comment on this sums up my thoughts and in that yes there is a shortage of nitrocellulose, but we need more information to assess exactly what is going on.
https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/gunpowder-a-possible-shortage/58221
It is by the owner of SGAmmo that is known for tying to panic the public.
A comment on this sums up my thoughts and in that yes there is a shortage of nitrocellulose, but we need more information to assess exactly what is going on.
AKMS
10d
The chemical manufacturing company my wife works for uses a large (huge really) amount of nitrocellulose. They have been
having intermittent supply issues for several years now. They are in no way defense, or in any other way munitions related. It would be devastating to their business if they couldn't get nitro.
For what its worth, SGAmmo is well known for its fear- mongering to boost its sales and profits, based on "industry insider" information. Take anything coming from them with a grain of salt.
Wormydog1724
ATAS Ninja
just living life in the panhandle. Dodged a tornado last year but my workplace wasn't so lucky. Temporary work space for the next year at least.
The drought is finally busted here but they say the el nino is going to turn into la nina, damn trans weather patterns.
Not much shooting going on out here anymore. There was a 3 gun match in garden city that has dried up. Used to be 3 gun and long range rifle in Amarillo, its gone kaput. There's a ""2-gun"" match that takes four guns to shoot in Pampa. I've gone once but not my crowd. There's been a good action rifle match in the OK panhandle the past six months or so. It's a lot of fun and good folks. I try to go to the monthly sporting rifle match in Raton every so often and I have plans to shoot at least one major PRS or NRL match this year. Really miss the OKC shooting scene from 2010-ish.
Coyotes are thicker than thicccc out here. Doing my part with thermal and NVG's as best I can but for every one I kill I swear three more grow back.
Things are getting weird all over. In Michigan land of the evil witch's clan we are getting safe storage red flags and only Almighty God knows what else shoved down our throats March 1st. Not likin' it at all
joepistol
Well-Known Fanatic
Well, Bob Lee, I'm at least as disappointed in recent legislative changes in Mi. gun laws as you are, though I am considering a different attitude for consideration.
Civil disobedience to the law can be a strong motivator in combating unjust legislation, Not doing anything, or promoting an agenda, just something to think about.
Civil disobedience to the law can be a strong motivator in combating unjust legislation, Not doing anything, or promoting an agenda, just something to think about.
If you wish, can you explain what "safe storage red flags " are?
Red flag laws, if someone gets a bug up their backside, they can say you're a danger, and you can lose your guns. Safe storage meaning guns locked up unloaded separate from your locked up ammo. Also universal background checks. Lord only knows what else. As I said before she and he coven of evil witches are totally unconstitutional scum that need to be voted out. Unfortunately we have a few big liberal cities that mess things up for the rest of our state. I'm beginning to feel like I'm in Your state sir.
I apologize for not proof reading my other message. You can believe if she could make a red flag/safe storage law up she damn well would/will. Again I am sorry for the confusion. Stay safe sir.
Yes sir, that'd be the plan here. Glad you seem to be on board with that too.
Oh right. I'll be glad to lock up my unloaded guns separately from my locked-up ammo. What a brilliant idea. The junkies and the criminals running across the border will really appreciate this brilliant idea also. I'm so glad that the communist party in our country thought of this.
Yes sir
