Burk Cornelius
Regular guy
I got to a yellow belt by doing just thisWall said:
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Grip: holding it wrong or size matters
- Thread starter yury
- Start date
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ShootinPeepin
Fanatic
I may have to keep this in mind. This class would help a lot.Wall said:
drmitchgibson
The white Morgan Freeman
You should find a gun that fits your hand well. Grip is grip, but anything that helps (a gun that feels good and that you like) will keep you focused on training. Don't accept a gun that you feel needs significant changes. You need good sights and a good trigger, and a grippy frame. And for it to go bang every time. Thumb stippling is for people who huff paint thinner 7 days a week.
Use a grip exerciser three times a week. Don't just squeeze and hold, do reps, and do it throughout the day. Work up to a 200lbs gripper. You can start with one of those cheap adjustable units from Academy or Walmart, but the plastic frame will snap after about 5,000 cycles. Metal spring grippers tend to last about 10,000 cycles before the spring snaps. It's pretty alarming.
Use a grip exerciser three times a week. Don't just squeeze and hold, do reps, and do it throughout the day. Work up to a 200lbs gripper. You can start with one of those cheap adjustable units from Academy or Walmart, but the plastic frame will snap after about 5,000 cycles. Metal spring grippers tend to last about 10,000 cycles before the spring snaps. It's pretty alarming.
Rockon71385
Founding Member
FWIW, I think people make WAY too big a deal out of selecting the "right" gun. The right gun is the one that you've practiced with enough so that it feels like an extension of your hand. Whether you liked the way the pistol felt the first time you picked it up is pretty irrelevant. I'm not saying you should pick a gun that you don't like. I'm just saying that time spent practicing is 100 times more important to your success in shooting than selecting the perfect gun to fit your hand.
Pick a good enough gun, practice like a madman, gain skills. Once you have strong fundamental handgun skills, you'll know a lot more about what you want and don't want in a gun. Until you complete that step, switching guns is like letting a 16 year old that just got his license test drive all of the cars to find out which one is best. It's fun to play with new stuff, but real improvement comes from picking a gun and training your ass off.
Pick a good enough gun, practice like a madman, gain skills. Once you have strong fundamental handgun skills, you'll know a lot more about what you want and don't want in a gun. Until you complete that step, switching guns is like letting a 16 year old that just got his license test drive all of the cars to find out which one is best. It's fun to play with new stuff, but real improvement comes from picking a gun and training your ass off.
yury
Well-Known Fanatic
(Nine-month update) The entire situation with grip got a lot better: I have a better group size. The pistol stays in my hand for the duration of more than 10 rounds now.
I just start looking at what my strong hand is doing, and it was not doing a lot to help with managing the recoil. I started fixing it with dryfire practice and live-fire with one hand. This taught me to hold the pistol harder with the strong hand, and it forced me to lock its wrist. The "lock" is a very vague term, and for me, it was constantly pushing the top (purlicue) part of the hand forward, and its bottom fingers to the back. Overdoing it though causes to push shots to the left, and this I know how to fix -- relax the strong hand a tad.
Also, there was no friction between the hands. So I decided to start using a liquid chalk -- it totally works! Especially, for the sweaty hands in a hot weather. There is nothing can be done with the pistol to fix that.
I just start looking at what my strong hand is doing, and it was not doing a lot to help with managing the recoil. I started fixing it with dryfire practice and live-fire with one hand. This taught me to hold the pistol harder with the strong hand, and it forced me to lock its wrist. The "lock" is a very vague term, and for me, it was constantly pushing the top (purlicue) part of the hand forward, and its bottom fingers to the back. Overdoing it though causes to push shots to the left, and this I know how to fix -- relax the strong hand a tad.
Also, there was no friction between the hands. So I decided to start using a liquid chalk -- it totally works! Especially, for the sweaty hands in a hot weather. There is nothing can be done with the pistol to fix that.
The grip size matters and, I would say, mostly its form. For a long time, I trained with the largest backstrap for the grip. Switching back to the smallest backstrap throws all training out of the window: indexing is wrong, failed reloads, etc. So I fully agree with Robbie's statement.Robbie said:
Corey
Well-Known Fanatic
Great to see a 9 month update
When I started I had an okay grip at the start, then when I did a mag change I was all over the place, "My grip was different". A year later I finally went to TDSA I had several "Ha Haaa" moments.
My brother and I totally changed our approach to how we dry fire after going to TDSA. I honestly believe if a person attends TDSA takes AP1 class and does dryfire practice 4-5 times a week with some live fire mixed in, in 3 months they can potentially hang with shooters that have been shooting for years but don't dryfire or practice outside of the matches.
I hope to see an update one day saying you went to TDSA. I have never heard someone say they regretted going to TDSA. They spend two days working on three primary topics: grip, sight picture and trigger control. Money well spent.
Later,
Corey
Late to the party but thisWall said:
thisMatt Rigsby said:
and this.Wall said:
When I started I had an okay grip at the start, then when I did a mag change I was all over the place, "My grip was different". A year later I finally went to TDSA I had several "Ha Haaa" moments.
My brother and I totally changed our approach to how we dry fire after going to TDSA. I honestly believe if a person attends TDSA takes AP1 class and does dryfire practice 4-5 times a week with some live fire mixed in, in 3 months they can potentially hang with shooters that have been shooting for years but don't dryfire or practice outside of the matches.
I hope to see an update one day saying you went to TDSA. I have never heard someone say they regretted going to TDSA. They spend two days working on three primary topics: grip, sight picture and trigger control. Money well spent.
Later,
Corey
KurtM
Well-Known Fanatic
Some general thoughts on a " Kung-Fu" grip, and grip exercises.
Technique is WAY more important than being able to crush a full soup can! While it is very manly to have a killer grip, if you have the hand strength to open a new jar of pickles...or a jar of salsa, to sound more "manly" you have pleanty of hand strength to easily shoot at the G.M. level.
Case in point, there are now several female G.M.s and not one of them has the hand strength of an average 18 year old male. Not one has the hand smashing, tin can trashing, killer grip of Dr. Mitch. I know two of them quite well and one of them needs assistance to load magazines durring a long match. There are quite a few female M class shooters that also don't have the gorrilla grip.
So what do they have? PROPPER TECHNIQUE! D.R. Middle Brooks became a G.M. while having a real bad case of Lyme's disease. He could bearly hold a cup of coffee, but he figured out that if you held the pistol correctly he could still shoot very well.
There are several places that teach it, you can read about it, you can ask someone who does it, but what you can't do is "take in" all the inter net stuff and try to apply it all! Many of these "techniques" are at odds with actually shooting well, and at odds with each other. What they are not at odds with is selling superfluous springs and widgets, tape, chalk, grippy stuff....etc.
Final thought......the more tensed up you are, the harder it is to preform fine finger motion.....like a nice trigger press......which is also WAY more important than being able to break a beer bottle in your black spring, 80 set, fore arm burning grip!
Technique is WAY more important than being able to crush a full soup can! While it is very manly to have a killer grip, if you have the hand strength to open a new jar of pickles...or a jar of salsa, to sound more "manly" you have pleanty of hand strength to easily shoot at the G.M. level.
Case in point, there are now several female G.M.s and not one of them has the hand strength of an average 18 year old male. Not one has the hand smashing, tin can trashing, killer grip of Dr. Mitch. I know two of them quite well and one of them needs assistance to load magazines durring a long match. There are quite a few female M class shooters that also don't have the gorrilla grip.
So what do they have? PROPPER TECHNIQUE! D.R. Middle Brooks became a G.M. while having a real bad case of Lyme's disease. He could bearly hold a cup of coffee, but he figured out that if you held the pistol correctly he could still shoot very well.
There are several places that teach it, you can read about it, you can ask someone who does it, but what you can't do is "take in" all the inter net stuff and try to apply it all! Many of these "techniques" are at odds with actually shooting well, and at odds with each other. What they are not at odds with is selling superfluous springs and widgets, tape, chalk, grippy stuff....etc.
Final thought......the more tensed up you are, the harder it is to preform fine finger motion.....like a nice trigger press......which is also WAY more important than being able to break a beer bottle in your black spring, 80 set, fore arm burning grip!
Jeff T.
Well-Known Fanatic
I agree with you!KurtM said:
I have tendinitis in both hands, so while I can open almost any jar, I can’t compete with the grip strength of any of you guys that use the grip strength machines. Finally learning a good technique enabled me to be able to keep my follow up shots much closer together in both time and shot placement. I wish I had learned it sooner.
Live Simply, Love Generously, Care Deeply, Speak Kindly, Shoot Well, Leave the rest to God.
Matt1911
Cyrwus Jr.
If there is anyone you should take advise from, it's KurtM. That guy has been around the block 3 times and had your mom more than you want to know.
If I had listened to half the stuff he said to me when I used to shoot with him, I'd be much better off.
If I had listened to half the stuff he said to me when I used to shoot with him, I'd be much better off.
