Felons Right to Purchase Guns

[fordnut]

What He Said...

Steve

 

[carsontech]

What about someone who became a felon by being convicted of breaking ridiculous laws, that we all break at one point or another (don't try to hide it). Like the "1000 foot gun free school zone" law.

You're committing a felony, anywhere in the USA, if you drive, with a firearm in your vehicle, within 1000 feet of a school's property line without a "permit" issued by the state the school resides in. Keep in mind that an out-of-state permit is not recognized and is no defense for the "1000 foot gun free school zone" law.

If you're convicted of breaking that law, a law we have all probably knowingly broke more than once, you are a convicted felon. By law, you're not eligible to buy firearms anymore, after this.

There are MANY stupid laws that can make you a felon. Like... being involved in a transaction for something that isn't taxable by the government ("drugs", raw milk in some occasions, etc), that's usually an instant felony.

Why does the government need to be involved in transactions where consenting parties come to mutual decisions?

Laws like this are BS, all public government enforced laws are BS. Laws don't stop anyone from committing acts that are criminalized through these laws.

Why do I want some entity (federal, state, or local government) using threats and coercion to make sure I don't sell a firearm to someone they don't approve of?

People who used a firearm for property theft/destruction, hurting/killing someone, or making someone do something they don't want to... those are people should be held responsible for their actions. If someone knowingly provided a firearm to someone that they KNEW was going to use it for those actions, they should be held partially responsible as well. There shouldn't be these ridiculous laws that criminalize certain things/activities because of what MIGHT happen.

That's like a teacher punishing a whole class because little Johnny did something "wrong".

There should only be a few "laws" that exist, and they should only deal with life and property.

Social contract, what social contract? I didn't sign to shite. I own my own life, no one else does.

Everyone in Government are the real "felons". They steal through taxation, stop your pursuit of happiness with stupid laws, use your money to kill innocent civilians in the US and other countries, incarcerate/kill you if you don't let them steal from you... the list goes on.

 

[lafayette gregory]

I understand you are trying to create gray areas. Do gray areas exist - Well sure. Then fight to change the law. Otherwise - KNOW the law and do not break it!
Just because you see a law as "ridiculous/stupid" does not mean it has no relevance.
I do not like driving 55 on stretches of I26. If I break the law, I suffer the consequences. Ignorance to the law is no excuse and neither is feeling a law is stupid. Definance to the law is not defendable. Breakin the law IS punishable.
You argument is not valid when it comes to allowing felons have weapons to continue to do bad things. Nore is your arguments about what youcall "stupid laws".
More power to you in getting stupid laws changed. If you can do it, congratulations will be in order.
But I still say (NO GUNS FOR FELONS).
And who made you the new judge and jury? Just because you think a law is stupid does not make that so.
Just because you think a law is stupid does not mean that applies to everyone- Raw milk is dangerous. If you want drink raw milk from your own cow there is no law against it. If you want to market raw milk to the general public, then we have a problem. Its also called a felony. Don't want a felony charge- Don't try and market raw milk!
Want to evade taxes- then you deserve a felony. I for one am tired of paying taxes when others evade them daily. These people are stealing from the American people, should be criminally charged and their rights taken away!
Guns around schools- Sheez.... I don't like it for me, bu its the law and I obey the law. I am not goin to violate a law just because I do not like the law. I am not going to willingly become a Felon.
Something that isn't taxable :roll: Give me a break. Nothing should be taxable and our Government should be operated by donations only......
If our elected officials make something taxable, then it IS taxable. Have a beef with that, contact your elected official.
BUT STILL - NO guns for felons!!!!!!! No weapons for evil people, no guns for people who commit domestic violence, no guns for the insane, No guns for illegal aliens, and all the other questions on the 4473.

Now, if I had my way, there would be no guns for dumbnesses also. People would have to take a test to prove their IQ level. Anyone below 90 would not be able to vote or own property or own weapons. Good thing I am not a politician
No guns for felons no matter even if it is a so called "stupid law". Its still the LAW. Obey of move away. Pay taxes of move away. Or write your Congress critter.

Oh- BTW/ carsontech- I love ya man

 

[bigfutz]

I guess the answer to this is, in a nutshell, if you enjoy your right (or priviledge or whatever you want to call it) to bear arms, then obey all the stupid laws. And get active in trying to get those laws changed BEFORE you break them. So if you really want to sell raw milk, remember what it might cost you.

 

[C_Carson]

I understand you are trying to create gray areas. Do gray areas exist - Well sure. Then fight to change the law. Otherwise - KNOW the law and do not break it!
Just because you see a law as "ridiculous/stupid" does not mean it has no relevance.
I do not like driving 55 on stretches of I26. If I break the law, I suffer the consequences. Ignorance to the law is no excuse and neither is feeling a law is stupid. Definance to the law is not defendable. Breakin the law IS punishable.

Have you never heard of civil disobedience? And how can he be 'creating' grey areas if you admit they already exist?

You argument is not valid when it comes to allowing felons have weapons to continue to do bad things. Nore is your arguments about what youcall "stupid laws".
More power to you in getting stupid laws changed. If you can do it, congratulations will be in order.
But I still say (NO GUNS FOR FELONS).
And who made you the new judge and jury? Just because you think a law is stupid does not make that so.

So what does qualify as making a law stupid? An act of Congress? Perhaps you should just google 'strange laws you may not know'. I think you'll be in for a bit of a surprise :lol:

Just because you think a law is stupid does not mean that applies to everyone- Raw milk is dangerous. If you want drink raw milk from your own cow there is no law against it. If you want to market raw milk to the general public, then we have a problem. Its also called a felony. Don't want a felony charge- Don't try and market raw milk!

Ohmygoodness...how is raw milk dangerous? There have been ZERO deaths from consuming raw milk in eleven years. Only 39 people have allegedly, but not proven to be, had any illness linked to raw milk. In 2006, 1,300 people got sick from pasteurized milk in California ALONE. This information is from the CDC. Raw milk is something I've studied about quite a bit, and if you knew some of the things I do...but that's for another thread... My family grew up on raw milk; I buy raw milk for my family now. Why should the government prevent someone from something they want to do? Why is it the governments' business if I want to drink raw milk or not? Why is it a crime?! How can it be a crime? Because government "says so"? It's a choice, and if it's the wrong one, then I'll end up paying consequences that have nothing to do with government meddling. Personal responsibility and all that.

Want to evade taxes- then you deserve a felony. I for one am tired of paying taxes when others evade them daily. These people are stealing from the American people, should be criminally charged and their rights taken away!

So I'm stealing from my neighbors if I don't pay taxes, but the government isn't stealing from me by collecting taxes I have no choice but to pay? Oh, thanks for clearing THAT up. :roll: And some of us believe rights are fundamental, natural rights that are not contingent upon anything other than sheer existence. You're advocating that if I don't voluntarily let the government take my money, then I shouldn't have any rights. Nice!

Guns around schools- Sheez.... I don't like it for me, bu its the law and I obey the law. I am not goin to violate a law just because I do not like the law.

I'm so glad you weren't around to give Rosa Parks advice. Would you have told her to get her ass to the back of the bus? And why should you be forced to give up your right to self defense near a school just because the law says? What logical reasoning is behind that? Schools are GFSZ, and guess where shootings frequently happen? This is a stupid law that defies logic, strips people of their rights, and enforces dependence and expectation of government protection. Please give me ONE example of how this GFSZ law has actually prevented a shooting.

I am not going to willingly become a Felon.

Very few actually do. But with the amount of laws on the books, it's becoming unavoidable. Did you know you can become a felon by possessing a lobster under a certain length? I think it's something like 80,000 laws are passed during an election year. EIGHTY THOUSAND. Imagine going to your mom's house, and she has 80,000 rules you must not break, or you'll be grounded and forced to give up your dessert!

Something that isn't taxable :roll: Give me a break. Nothing should be taxable and our Government should be operated by donations only......
If our elected officials make something taxable, then it IS taxable. Have a beef with that, contact your elected official.

I am not a lawyer, but as I understand it, you can't patent (read=make money!) from natural resources, which is why the government pushes synthetic drugs over natural ones. Some things are not and should not be taxable. Taxes have been a problem since society formed; we fought the Revolution partially because of taxation without representation, and then the very government we formed in the freedom from tyranny turned around and started mandatory taxing of citizens to cover the debt. Oh, but, we're not supposed to know that :? Think about the Whiskey Rebellion, which I promise most Americans have never heard of. None of that strikes you as hypocritical?

BUT STILL - NO guns for felons!!!!!!! No weapons for evil people, no guns for people who commit domestic violence, no guns for the insane, No guns for illegal aliens, and all the other questions on the 4473.

Part of what Carsontech was trying to say, was that not all felons are evil or violent or insane. You are painting with a broad brush, my friend, and a judgmental one at that. Does a felon no longer have the right to protect his/her life because of a mistake they made 17 years ago? Should they no longer be able defend their family because of that mistake? And what about after a felon has served their time? If they can't be trusted with their rights, then why are they back out on the street?

Now, if I had my way, there would be no guns for dumbnesses also. People would have to take a test to prove their IQ level. Anyone below 90 would not be able to vote or own property or own weapons. Good thing I am not a politician
No guns for felons no matter even if it is a so called "stupid law". Its still the LAW. Obey of move away. Pay taxes of move away. Or write your Congress critter.

Oh- BTW/ carsontech- I love ya man

So...lemme see if I got this straight...you would regulate a right until only people who meet your standard of approval would pass? To be able to hunt to provide for their family? To be able to defend their lives, and the lives of their loved ones? What next? Will people be too old to be allowed to have a gun? What about all the grannies who've successfully defended themselves from home intruders? Will you disarm them too? You advocate for dumb people to not be able to own property? My god, man, you sound like you'd love the very type of hierarchy our forefathers fought to get us free from. Back then, only property owners could vote, or run for office. Would you like to return to a land where we are ruled by the privileged class?

/pregnant lady rant. Apologies if my blood pressure runs a little high for the next 5 months

 

[lafayette gregory]

Civil disobedience is a very good thing when organized and no one breaks laws. Committing felonious crimes is not civil disobedience. MLK used civil disobedience to usher in the civil rights movement and new laws that created equality among all. he did not commit federal felony acts.
And yes, laws are laws. If you do not like them, then fight to get them changed. Do not become a felon just to prove a personal point or to address a personal opinion.

So I'm stealing from my neighbors if I don't pay taxes, but the government isn't stealing from me by collecting taxes I have no choice but to pay? Oh, thanks for clearing THAT up. And some of us believe rights are fundamental, natural rights that are not contingent upon anything other than sheer existence. You're advocating that if I don't voluntarily let the government take my money, then I shouldn't have any rights. Nice!

Correct. You do understand. If you use services and you do not pay for them, you are stealing services and are just as guilty as any other freeloader. I pay taxes and I get, police service, I get street lights, I get paved roads and is get civil order, I get a military that will defend this country and its interest. People who evade taxes are steeling from me because I have to pay more taxes becauese they do not.

I'm so glad you weren't around to give Rosa Parks advice. Would you have told her to get her ass to the back of the bus? And why should you be forced to give up your right to self defense near a school just because the law says? What logical reasoning is behind that? Schools are GFSZ, and guess where shootings frequently happen? This is a stupid law that defies logic, strips people of their rights, and enforces dependence and expectation of government protection. Please give me ONE example of how this GFSZ law has actually prevented a shooting.

I have no argument with what you statement - The only difference is that I am not going to become a felon. I am not going to go to a school with a weapon. We all have choices, and the law is what it is. If it is a felony to have a gun in a school zone, then I will not have a gun in a school zone or I will not go to a school zone.
Your argument is a about a law you disagree with- More power to you in changing it. And do not tell me you have to pick up a kid from school. :roll: Give them a damn bicycle and pick em up a mile away. Let em ride the bus, etc..... You have choices.
But that does not mean it is ok for felons to have access to weapons. Felons are bad people and they should not have weapons.


[codeSo what does qualify as making a law stupid? An act of Congress? Perhaps you should just google 'strange laws you may not know'. I think you'll be in for a bit of a surprise
][/code]
You are the one that used the term "stupid law". I only mention laws. They are what they are. I am not a law maker, I am a voter. I am not a law enforcement officer. I am also not a felon. It is up to our elected law makers to make or change laws. Thats what we elect them for. And one good law is that FELONS cannot have weapons. Thats a good law.

Raw milk

Its a law- Want it changed, then write your law maker, vote , scream or whatever else you can legally do to effect change. Until it is changed I am not going to violate the law. If you willingly make a decision to become a felon - then you too do not deserve to have access to weapons.

Very few actually do. But with the amount of laws on the books, it's becoming unavoidable. Did you know you can become a felon by possessing a lobster under a certain length? I think it's something like 80,000 laws are passed during an election year. EIGHTY THOUSAND. Imagine going to your mom's house, and she has 80,000 rules you must not break, or you'll be grounded and forced to give up your dessert!

Ignorance to the law is no defense. Willfully ignorance is even less defensible. See my suggestion about IQ testing.

am not a lawyer, but as I understand it, you can't patent (read=make money!) from natural resources, which is why the government pushes synthetic drugs over natural ones. Some things are not and should not be taxable. Taxes have been a problem since society formed; we fought the Revolution partially because of taxation without representation, and then the very government we formed in the freedom from tyranny turned around and started mandatory taxing of citizens to cover the debt. Oh, but, we're not supposed to know that Think about the Whiskey Rebellion, which I promise most Americans have never heard of. None of that strikes you as hypocritical?

Lots of shoulders and coulds and accusations about being hypocritical. Yep- maybe so maybe not. Still does not make it right for someone to willingly become a felon. Does not defend a dumbarse from becoming a felon. Want to keep your rights, do not perform felonious actions. What is taxed is what our elected officials have decided can be taxed. We elected them, we gave them power and we can remove them. I personally think it is crazy to tax cigarettes. I think anyone stupid enough to smoke should be paid to kill themselves. A better world through attrition.

Part of what Carsontech was trying to say, was that not all felons are evil or violent or insane. You are painting with a broad brush, my friend, and a judgmental one at that. Does a felon no longer have the right to protect his/her life because of a mistake they made 17 years ago? Should they no longer be able defend their family because of that mistake? And what about after a felon has served their time? If they can't be trusted with their rights, then why are they back out on the street?

Evil or violent does not matter. degrees of felonies is not a legal term or deciding a factor at this time. And YES- a mistake made 17 years ago is still a mistake. Passage of time does not change history. A felon is a felon. If someone cannot defend their family then their family needs to find someone who can defend them and dump the damn felon!
Served their time- There are time limits for punishment and an attempt to reeducate the felon. An attempt to return them to society. But that does not change history and these bad people do not need more ammunition to commit further crimes. I am not a fortune teller- No but we know that bad people do bad things and once learned they are more likely to recommit bad crimes. Look up the rate of recidism in todays prisions!

/pregnant lady rant. Apologies if my blood pressure runs a little high for the next 5 months

I cannot think of a better mother. No apologies necessary to me, its only the internet. And besides- I think we have both been very civil. A bit impassioned, and that never hurt anyone I love you too See ya the shootzenfest.

 

[John Canuck]

It is fun to watch people out themselves on the interwebz.

 

[Tigerstripe]

so,
i ask again, are we going to willingly become felons when the MAN is at the door to take our guns?

 

[bigfutz]

so,
i ask again, are we going to willingly become felons when the MAN is at the door to take our guns?

If you mean everybody's guns, then the man has already decided we are all in essence felons, and we will have been or are about to be stripped of all our other constitutional rights as well. Just remember, speak out against ANY stripping of rights, whether it affects you or not. Just because YOU don't drink raw milk or drink 20 oz sodas, doesn't mean you can't stand up for the rights fo those who choose to.

 

[C_Carson]

Civil disobedience is a very good thing when organized and no one breaks laws. Committing felonious crimes is not civil disobedience. MLK used civil disobedience to usher in the civil rights movement and new laws that created equality among all. he did not commit federal felony acts.
And yes, laws are laws. If you do not like them, then fight to get them changed. Do not become a felon just to prove a personal point or to address a personal opinion.

I never advocated anyone to become a felon, especially for the intent of proving a personal point or opinion.

So I'm stealing from my neighbors if I don't pay taxes, but the government isn't stealing from me by collecting taxes I have no choice but to pay? Oh, thanks for clearing THAT up. And some of us believe rights are fundamental, natural rights that are not contingent upon anything other than sheer existence. You're advocating that if I don't voluntarily let the government take my money, then I shouldn't have any rights. Nice!

Correct. You do understand. If you use services and you do not pay for them, you are stealing services and are just as guilty as any other freeloader. I pay taxes and I get, police service, I get street lights, I get paved roads and is get civil order, I get a military that will defend this country and its interest. People who evade taxes are steeling from me because I have to pay more taxes becauese they do not.

See, I actually don't understand. How is it stealing when I don't pay, but it's NOT stealing when the government takes my money? Because I receive 'services'? Those same benefits can be provided in a free society, where everything is privatized and government doesn't stick their hands in everyone's pockets. Taxes don't exactly seem just when you consider the penalty of not paying is jail, or worse. That's like going into your neighbors house and saying "I won't beat your ass if you give me money. If you do give me money I'll keep anyone else from beating you up."

I have no argument with what you statement - The only difference is that I am not going to become a felon. I am not going to go to a school with a weapon. We all have choices, and the law is what it is. If it is a felony to have a gun in a school zone, then I will not have a gun in a school zone or I will not go to a school zone.

So you have no argument about GFSZ, but you still don't object to the law? You'll just obey it and go your merry so long as it doesn't bother you?

Your argument is a about a law you disagree with- More power to you in changing it. And do not tell me you have to pick up a kid from school. :roll: Give them a damn bicycle and pick em up a mile away. Let em ride the bus, etc..... You have choices.
But that does not mean it is ok for felons to have access to weapons. Felons are bad people and they should not have weapons.

So, I should only be able to decide between letting my kids fend for themselves or becoming a felon? Huh. Not much of a choice there. But, then again, my kids won't be going to any public or private institution, so it doesn't actually involve me. Doesn't mean I don't want it changed, because I think it's a huge pile of bovine scat.

You are the one that used the term "stupid law". I only mention laws. They are what they are. I am not a law maker, I am a voter. I am not a law enforcement officer. I am also not a felon. It is up to our elected law makers to make or change laws. Thats what we elect them for. And one good law is that FELONS cannot have weapons. Thats a good law.

I didn't start with 'stupid' laws, but some of them truly are. Did you know in South Carolina it is a crime to promise to marry a girl and then not do it?

By law, if a man promises to marry an unmarried woman, the marriage must take place.

http://www.dumblaws.com/law/862

And what do you do when our elected law makers make or change laws that personally affect you in a negative way? Will you only speak up then? As to the felons having weapons...that law hasn't stopped felons who want guns from getting them. It hasn't stopped their access to power tools, chef knives, a car, gasoline and matches....do you see where I'm going with this? The law prevents NOTHING except for limiting the rights of generally law abiding people who became unwitting felons because they shared MP3 files or possessed a short lobster.

Raw milk

Its a law- Want it changed, then write your law maker, vote , scream or whatever else you can legally do to effect change. Until it is changed I am not going to violate the law. If you willingly make a decision to become a felon - then you too do not deserve to have access to weapons.

Just so you know, it is legal to purchase and consume raw milk in SC. Will you go along with a law that says you may only consume hot dogs and no vegetables? What business does the government have telling us what we can and cannot put into our bodies?! And trust me, this is something I'm becoming active in, so thanks for the advice, but what measures are you taking to make change happen? Or will you only take action when it happens to something that matters to you? What if they outlaw guns tomorrow? Will you shrug your shoulders and say "That's the law. I'll be turning in my guns until I can get this repealed by writing letters for the next 20 years."?

Ignorance to the law is no defense. Willfully ignorance is even less defensible. See my suggestion about IQ testing.

So, if ignorance of the law is no defense, then you must know EVERY law on the books, right? Otherwise, how can you be absolutely POSITIVE you've never, ever, in your whole life, done something "felonious"?

Lots of shoulders and coulds and accusations about being hypocritical. Yep- maybe so maybe not. Still does not make it right for someone to willingly become a felon. Does not defend a dumbarse from becoming a felon. Want to keep your rights, do not perform felonious actions. What is taxed is what our elected officials have decided can be taxed. We elected them, we gave them power and we can remove them. I personally think it is crazy to tax cigarettes. I think anyone stupid enough to smoke should be paid to kill themselves. A better world through attrition.

Again, not many people WILLINGLY become felons. The ones that do don't give two shits about the law anyways, so what good does that do? And just because something is against the law, doesn't always make it WRONG. Our forefathers revolted in part because of the Stamp Act; and yet we should roll over and just accept that the current crop of mafiosas in office can do whatever the hell they want? How well has the removal of Jake Knotts been going, hmm? Absolute liberty means that folks can do stupid things like smoking, and you can't infringe on their pursuit of happiness. Taxing smokes to high and unholy amounts does nothing but generate revenue for the government, which is what MOST laws are about anyways.

Evil or violent does not matter. degrees of felonies is not a legal term or deciding a factor at this time. And YES- a mistake made 17 years ago is still a mistake. Passage of time does not change history. A felon is a felon. If someone cannot defend their family then their family needs to find someone who can defend them and dump the damn felon!

Omg.... So a man at the age of 18 who went fishing, and caught a short lobster, got convicted of a NON-VIOLENT felony, should not be able to defend his wife and daughter when he's 35? He could be an awesome husband, father, provider and great at his job, but that family should just dump him because of a mistake? Holy elephant dung, dude. :shock:

Served their time- There are time limits for punishment and an attempt to reeducate the felon. An attempt to return them to society. But that does not change history and these bad people do not need more ammunition to commit further crimes. I am not a fortune teller- No but we know that bad people do bad things and once learned they are more likely to recommit bad crimes. Look up the rate of recidism in todays prisions!

So, they've served their time, can be released into the public, trusted with "further ammunition" like vehicles (higher mortality rate then guns! Perhaps felons shouldn't be allowed to drive!), flammable materials, hammers and knives, but they can't have guns or vote. Kind of seems like the forceful creation of a sub-class of people. And have you noticed that black people get convicted more often then white people? Hmm, that COULDN'T have anything to do with gun control originating as an attempt to keep guns out of the hands of blacks...

I cannot think of a better mother. No apologies necessary to me, its only the internet. And besides- I think we have both been very civil. A bit impassioned, and that never hurt anyone I love you too See ya the shootzenfest.

Thank you, and I'm glad we can have a passionate, but civil discussion. I've always said the folks in this community are unique and amazing in that way Sadly, I'll probably have to miss Shootzenfest again, since I'm not due til January, and I hear it can get it quite loud, lol.

 

[TheSwampFox]

Schools are GFSZ, and guess where shootings frequently happen? This is a stupid law that defies logic, strips people of their rights, and enforces dependence and expectation of government protection. Please give me ONE example of how this GFSZ law has actually prevented a shooting.

I think that sums up the whole "gun free" zone reality.

 

[mcdaniel]

Best. Thread. Ever.

I just ordered a "Team Carson" shirt.

 

[PCShogun]

Well, there have been some very good points made. But since the internet is a place for people to post their opinion (not necessarily the facts) then I will give my opinion.

Felons should not have the right to bear arms. Why? Because despite what we wish to feel, the law is a BLANKET that covers everything. You give a felon ,convicted of a law that really should have been a misdemeanor, his weapon back, then some lawyer is going to twist that into a precedent allowing all felons to have their weapons returned. While I would be willing to give the rights back to some, I am not willing to give them back to all.

One possible compromise would be that if a law is downgraded to a misdemeanor, or removed altogether, then the conviction should be also downgraded, which in some cases would return a persons rights. Fight to get the laws changed or clarified.

 

[armaborealis]

Felons should not have the right to bear arms. Why? Because despite what we wish to feel, the law is a BLANKET that covers everything. You give a felon ,convicted of a law that really should have been a misdemeanor, his weapon back, then some lawyer is going to twist that into a precedent allowing all felons to have their weapons returned. While I would be willing to give the rights back to some, I am not willing to give them back to all.

Until 1967, it was a felony for a black person and a white person to get married in many states. In SC, GA, and NC at least (probably more states), the laws were on the books until 1967 until they were thrown out by the SCOTUS. In NC, the prison term was up to 10 years (making it a disabling offense). It was a felony in GA. So, just to be clear, you're on record supporting remove the right to keep and bear arms from older interracial couples, but "maybe" would be willing to consider an exception? How enlightened.

I personally feel that it is immoral to remove specifically enumerated constitutional rights and natural rights from people who have done no harm to others, who are unlikely to do harm to others, and indeed, who have been subjected to what can legitimately be called evil and unjust laws. That's just me, though.

Besides, how effective is this law in actually disarming multiple time violent offenders? Go read Sean Sorrentino's blog from neighboring NC (www.ncgunblog.com/) and you will read tale after tale of violent ex-cons who arm themselves and commit more mayhem. For a guy who's going to go out and commit armed robbery or attempt a murder, I can't imagine that the threat of being caught with a HiPoint is really going to deter him.

 

[bigfutz]

Not to discount any earlier posts, I tip my hat to the last two for presenting well-argued yet opposing opinions to both sides of this "debate." I see merits in both. My view goes to a more general opinion on law itself. Law only prevents the law abiding citizens from doing a particular thing. So a convicted felon (and here's the important part) once released back into society will only be under rule of law if they so choose.

I believe that if our system believes that the convict has truly reformed and paid his debt to the extent he is no longer a threat to society, why should not all his rights - constitutional, inalienable or otherwise - not be restored? Shall we continue to punish the person for the remainder of his life? I'm just saying, if someone is so dangerous that he should not be allowed to own a self defense tool (not a weapon until used as such) be allowed to reenter society at all? And since everyone's criminal background is public record, are not released felons in particular a safe target for home invaders?

Regarding double standards, why aren't those convicted of DUI given a lifetime stamp on their drivers license to prohibit purchase of alcohol? Why are they given a driver's license at all. I just think this felony = no gun law is a much broader grab at our 2A rights. You can see the creep into misdemeanors is already happening in an area where no decent person would argue it - domestic violence. Like an AWB: most people agree full auto weapons should be illegal, then its those that look military, then those that are concealable, then the rest. It's like boiling a frog or eating an elephant...

 

[Tigerstripe]

heres another can of worms but personally i believe that if we used the death penalty as intended instead of our wishy-washy "charles manson can be rehablilitated" form of punishment, a boat load of felons wouldnt be using guns in a second third or fourth chance.
speedy trial and speedy execution of sentense. some would argue that some innocent people might be executed but stop and think. of 1000 murderers convicted now, how many, 1 is executed after 10 or 15 years? lets make that 950 out of 1000 and its done within 6 months. lots of felons are going to think twice about that and you and i who have no intent on murder have nothing to worry about.

 

[Tigerstripe]

ill be ducking for cover now.

 

[PCShogun]

For a guy who's going to go out and commit armed robbery or attempt a murder, I can't imagine that the threat of being caught with a HiPoint is really going to deter him.

That is true, but in this case the law is not a deterrent, period. Does this mean we should just get rid of all laws as the law will not deter the true criminal anyway?

 

[dreamerofdreams]

For a guy who's going to go out and commit armed robbery or attempt a murder, I can't imagine that the threat of being caught with a HiPoint is really going to deter him.

That is true, but in this case the law is not a deterrent, period. Does this mean we should just get rid of all laws as the law will not deter the true criminal anyway?

Hardly. In that case, you keep the laws that will punish the actual crime. What is the actual crime here? Robbery, murder. That should remain illegal so that it can be punished.

The gun carrying is only illegal because people think it will prevent crimes. It doesn't. So why does the law exist?

 

[John Canuck]

I think we should just keep lowering the bar of what is a felony, until most people can't carry a gun. The bar should be placed just so I can clear it, but very few others can. :|