Clark Gator AR-15?

[dennishoddy]

No I do not own an Stag, I have just read that the 3G shoots around 1.5 moa off the shelf. I like all the features on the rifle just want to see if there are mods to tighten up the groups.

Like others, I'm not sure where you read that other than a personal account of a shooter that can't shoot.

We are in the golden age of guns. CNC machines that can keep consistent dimensions in tolerance that were only dreamed of before, are the norm now.
Back in the day, reloaders had to find a load for each barrel as they were build by one person on machines that were ran by one person, that could run that machine or not.
Constants in bores, refiling, etc were dependent on how good a machinist was.
Today, digital processes that constantly check tolerances make sure we have a barrel that is consistent, one after the other.

Re loaders can squeeze the accuracy of a barrel down with some practice, but anymore, its not an issue like it was before.

 

[nwlr82]

No offense taken man. I am curios as To where you read that the Stag Accuracy isn't good enough.

None taken Jesse. SO do you remember when I first contacted you about the 3G? I wanted to know what the MOA was like for you. Well the reason was because I read this amazing article on the 3G in the January 2012 issue of Guns and Ammo. However on page 38 there is a table with accuracy and velocity results. I will quote what the author wrote:
"Accuracy results are the average of four 5-shot groups at 25 yards off an M TM K-Zone shooting rest. Velocities are averages of 10 shots measured on a PACT MKIV chronograph set 15 feet from the muzzle."
In the table above he lists 8 different types of ammo everything from WOLF to Match grade. And none of them have an average group smaller than .75 inches and greater than 1.75 inches. If my math is correct you would need to multiply these numbers by 4 to get an accurate MOA at 100 yards. Which means the tightest group would be 3 inches with Match grade ammo, and the Wolf would be shooting 7 inches.
Now with these numbers I felt like there must be a miss print or something because in the article he says you would have no problem shooting ground squirrels at 300 yards, and the 3G can produce sub MOA accuracy. This is why I wrote you in the first place and have been asking around about the 3G. You technically work for STAG and I wanted to get an unbiased opinion.
So with that after looked at the Loki on line to get what I want would cost around 1900.00 which is a lot more than the Stag. I liked the option for the Loki TLOS to provide the least amount of recoil possible for quick follow up shots. Does the 3G come with something like the TLOS and if not does Stag make something similar you could put in?

 

[jtischauser]

None taken Jesse. SO do you remember when I first contacted you about the 3G? I wanted to know what the MOA was like for you. Well the reason was because I read this amazing article on the 3G in the January 2012 issue of Guns and Ammo. However on page 38 there is a table with accuracy and velocity results. I will quote what the author wrote:
"Accuracy results are the average of four 5-shot groups at 25 yards off an M TM K-Zone shooting rest. Velocities are averages of 10 shots measured on a PACT MKIV chronograph set 15 feet from the muzzle."
In the table above he lists 8 different types of ammo everything from WOLF to Match grade. And none of them have an average group smaller than .75 inches and greater than 1.75 inches. If my math is correct you would need to multiply these numbers by 4 to get an accurate MOA at 100 yards. Which means the tightest group would be 3 inches with Match grade ammo, and the Wolf would be shooting 7 inches.
Now with these numbers I felt like there must be a miss print or something because in the article he says you would have no problem shooting ground squirrels at 300 yards, and the 3G can produce sub MOA accuracy. This is why I wrote you in the first place and have been asking around about the 3G. You technically work for STAG and I wanted to get an unbiased opinion.
So with that after looked at the Loki on line to get what I want would cost around 1900.00 which is a lot more than the Stag. I liked the option for the Loki TLOS to provide the least amount of recoil possible for quick follow up shots. Does the 3G come with something like the TLOS and if not does Stag make something similar you could put in?

Roger that I'm following you. I figured it was on another forum. Yeah that article must be a misprint on the distance he was shooting. I've never seen a gun writer do accuracy testing in a rifle at 25 yards. I bet he copied and pasted from his last pistol test. Lol!

Stag doesn't make any of the fun go fast low mass parts. Stag's position in the market is more the high volume low cost manufacturer which really doesn't do well with a bunch of variations in the product line. Furthermore the low mass system theoretically is less reliable than a standard mil spec setup. Competition guys shoot a lot more than the average shooter. I would also be willing to say that competition shooter understand more about maintenance than the average shooter. So competition guys don't have reliability issues with our race guns because we know how to tune and maintain them. If you put a race rifle in the hands of the average shooter you may see issues. Adjustable gas blocks are probably the component that burns most guys that don't know what they are doing. I know it got me when I first started. Companies like Stag that mass produce rifles can't produce rifles that aren't new shooter proof. I hope that makes sense without sounding condescending to new Shooters our to the companies like JP or Loki.

So if you want the low mass stuff on a Stag you need to add it yourself afterwards which is what I have done. Last season I ran a Yoing carrier for a while. The lighter JP was softer because of the reduced weight. I didn't run adjustable gas last year and did well. After awhile I'd didn't even notice it wasn't there. I am playing around with several adjustae gas blocks on my Stag this year. By I don't know . I guess I can't leave well enough alone. I have a JP adjustable gas block in one gun a Syrnac Ordnance in another and a Precision reflex in another and a KEIS in another.

The lowest mass bolt carrier on the market that i know of is the JP Enterprises carrier. Young Manufacturing makes one but it's a few tenths of ounches heavier than the JP. Rumor has it Loki is working on their design that will be as light or HOPEFULLY lighter than the JP by a few tenths. Stay tuned for that...

 

[DoctorJJ]

Not to get too far off topic, but have you tried a titanium carrier Jesse?

 

[jtischauser]

Not to get too far off topic, but have you tried a titanium carrier Jesse?

Nope. Cyrwus had an older Progressive Machine and Tool titanium carrier but I never shot it. I think he had troubles with the gas key coming loose and switched to a JP.

 

[Deathtrap]

Your wanting 2 totally different guns in one. Personally if I'm shooting Ground hogs at 300 yards I want something heavy with lots of magnification. If your running around shooting up close I don't want either of those things. So you will either have to pick one or compromise, and if you try for the "best of both worlds" it will be expensive if you do it right. As for what brand........ I buy, shoot and sale some pretty high end firearms at what we will call a faster than average rate,and the only thing I have I can't see myself getting rid of is my JP15. With that being said I get beat on a regular basis by Jesse with a stag, Chris with a Loki and Chambers with some kind of gun made from spare parts.

 

[jtischauser]

...and Chambers with some kind of gun made from spare parts.

This is the part I liked in the above post!

 

[Chambers]

Your wanting 2 totally different guns in one. Personally if I'm shooting Ground hogs at 300 yards I want something heavy with lots of magnification. If your running around shooting up close I don't want either of those things. So you will either have to pick one or compromise, and if you try for the "best of both worlds" it will be expensive if you do it right. As for what brand........ I buy, shoot and sale some pretty high end firearms at what we will call a faster than average rate,and the only thing I have I can't see myself getting rid of is my JP15. With that being said I get beat on a regular basis by Jesse with a stag, Chris with a Loki and Chambers with some kind of gun made from spare parts.

+1

Carefully selected spare parts, of course!