Church concealed carry

Christ had the power to call an army of angels in his defense yet scolded Peter when he used his sword.
It seems to me the reason Christ scolded Peter was because of what was going on. It was his time to be taken into custody and to be put to death. Peter was not really defending he was attacking. Notice what he continues to tell Peter... He who lives by the sword dies by the sword.
 
I think that God gave us a brain, we all know that terrible things happen to people, and we dont understand why, God has a plan but just because you think God will protect you doesnt mean that he doesnt have it in his plan to test you. Bad things happen to everyone, good, bad or indifferent, I think God gave me the mind that I have for a reason. God says "do not test the Lord your God", and Ill not test his ability to protect me without need. God never said it would all be peachy keen, not matter what the deacon said. If I am in a situation that I had no control over and I need him, he will be there, but when I place myself in danger then say "Gods got my back", seems like a test to me. Ill just keep the faith and continue reloading.

As far as schools, how can we ignore the tragedies of VT, Columbine (a middle school friend of mines aunt was the teacher that died there) and countless other instances around the world where if only one person had been carrying, had the tool to stop the madness, they could have ended it.
 
Just my opinion, but Church, religion has no relationship on where I can carry. Bad people exist in every enviroment. One should protect themselves in the same.
 
I think that God gave us a brain, we all know that terrible things happen to people, and we dont understand why, God has a plan but just because you think God will protect you doesnt mean that he doesnt have it in his plan to test you. Bad things happen to everyone, good, bad or indifferent, I think God gave me the mind that I have for a reason. God says "do not test the Lord your God", and Ill not test his ability to protect me without need. God never said it would all be peachy keen, not matter what the deacon said. If I am in a situation that I had no control over and I need him, he will be there, but when I place myself in danger then say "Gods got my back", seems like a test to me. Ill just keep the faith and continue reloading.

My sentiments exactly. I don't know what post you read, but the "God said it would all be peachy keen" thing didn't come from me.


Just my opinion, but Church, religion has no relationship on where I can carry. Bad people exist in every enviroment. One should protect themselves in the same.

I think you pretty much summed it up.

From a religious AND secular standpoint, we all have free will; some choose to do good, some choose to do evil, and some choose to do nothing. Keeping that in perspective, bad things happen to good people everyday and it's all a part (by-product) of the grand plan. So, to be anywhere without the ability to protect yourself is an assumption of grace.

And like Kinggabby said, Simon Peter was scolded for interfering, not for carrying a sword. One can, in fact, infer that he was open carrying *ahem*.
 
I was going to leave this one alone but here is a couple of thoughts. Back in the day..,the sword was the weapon of choice. There are places that talk about swords some good some not so good for the good guys.
Now to stress the will and desire of some BGs wanting to jack up Christians and their place of worship
http://news.yahoo.co...-081741789.html
If you don't think it can happen here go check out DoJs/FBI press releases. Things have slowed down a bit but go back only 2 years and you will see a lot of supporters or folks geared personally to hurt Americans here in America and abroad. This is all public knowledge with free access. Yet it doesn't hit main stream media to include FOX.
Boys and girls there are folks that don't know you other than you being an American or Christian and they want to destroy both. Lets not forget the Meth, the gangs and those that just want your stuff because you have it and they don't. Look at the churches bombed / firebombed since the 60s until now as well.
Last yr over the holidays there was a lot of home invasions in OK, I have not heard of any this yr but haven't looked. Just don't think we are safe in our country, in our town or at home, let alone anywhere else.
If you carry it is your choice. Main thing I guess is don't be naive and be informed to make informed decisions.
 
In case no one wanted to take the time looking at the DoJ / FBI press releases. Heres a few links. Now this does not take in the horrendous amount of sex related, drugs/gang related and murder cases.


DoJ
2011
December
December 21, 2011
Orange County Pharmacist Charged with Providing Material Support to Terrorists by Sending Money to Person in Pakistan
December 20, 2011
Sudbury Man Convicted on Terrorism-Related Charges
December 20, 2011
Company and Three Individuals Indicted for Illegally Exporting Military Technology to South Korea
December 9, 2011
Alleged Terrorist Indicted in New York for the Murder of Five American Soldiers
December 2, 2011
Pakistani National Living in Woodbridge Pleads Guilty to Providing Material Support to Terrorist Organization
December 1, 2011
San Diego Woman Pleads Guilty to Conspiracy to Provide Material Support to al Shabaab
November
November 17, 2011
Exporter Pleads Guilty to Selling Sensitive Technology to China
November 14, 2011
Texas Man Convicted for Attempting to Provide Material Support to Al Qaeda
November 10, 2011
Alleged Terrorist Charged with Conspiracy to Provide Material Support to Al-Qaeda
November 8, 2011
Federal Grand Jury Returns Superseding Indictment Against Naser Jason Abdo in Connection with Bomb Plot
November 2, 2011
International Arms Dealer Viktor Bout Convicted in New York of Terrorism Crimes
November 3, 2011
Local Man Pleads Guilty to Providing Material Support to Terrorist Organization
October
October 20, 2011
Federal jury convicts two Rochester, Minnesota, women of providing material support to al-Shabaab
September
September 30, 2011
Chinese Nationals Sentenced 24 Months for Illegally Attempting to Export Radiation-Hardened Microchips to the PRC
September 28, 2011
Ashland Man Charged With Plotting Attack On Pentagon And U.S. Capitol And Attempting To Provide Material Support To Foreign Terrorist Organization
September 27, 2011
Former U.S. Head of Al-Haramain Islamic Foundation Sentenced to 33 Months in Federal Prison
September 9, 2011
Pakistani National Pleads Guilty in Scheme to Illegally Export Restricted Nuclear Materials to Pakistan
September 9, 2011
New York City Resident Indicted for Providing Material Support to Terrorists. Albanian National Arrested at JFK Airport en route to Fight Jihad
September 7, 2011
Attempted Bomber Pleads Guilty to Federal Hate Crime and Weapons Charge
September 7, 2011
Laguerre Payen sentenced in Manhattan federal court to 25 years in prison for plotting to bomb Bronx synagogues and shoot down U.S. military planes
September 2, 2011
Woodbridge Man Charged with Providing Material Support to Terrorist Organization
August
August 15, 2011
Iranian National sentenced to 51 months in prison for plot to illegally export missile component and radio tests sets to Iran
August 15, 2011
Man extradited from Netherlands appears in federal court on charges of supporting terrorists
August 8, 2011
Dutch Citizen Arrested, Charged With Conspiracy to Export Goods to Iran
August 5, 2011
Salvadoran Arms Dealer Who Supported FARC Sentenced to 31 Years in Prison
July
July 29, 2011
Naser Jason Abdo Charged Federally in Bomb Plot
July 26, 2011
Manhattan U.S. Attorney Announces Arrests in DEA Narco-Terrorism Undercover Operations
July 26, 2011
Illegal Alien from Uzbekistan Indicted for Threatening to Kill the President and Possessing Machine Gun and Grenades
July 22, 2011
Father of Would-Be Suicide Bomber Convicted of Obstructing Terrorism Investigation
July 18, 2011
Minneapolis man pleads guilty to Terrorism Offense
July 12, 2011
New Jersey-Based Defense Contractor Pleads Guilty to Violating Arms Export Control Act, Conspiracy with Chinese Company
July 7, 2011
Brooklyn Man Convicted of Conspiracy to Kill U.S. Soldiers Abroad and Attempting to Provide Material Support to Al-Shabbab
July 5, 2011
Accused Al Shabaab Leader Charged With Providing Material Support to Al Shabaab and Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula
June
June 23, 2011
Alexandria Man Charged with Shooting at Military Buildings in Northern Virginia
June 22, 2011
Ohio Woman Sentenced in Plot to Send Funds to Hizballah
June 21, 2011
Manhattan U.S. Attorney Charges Man With Murdering Members of the United States Air Force in Germany
June 21, 2011
Three FARC Guerillas Convicted in Manhattan Federal Court of Taking a U.S. Citizen Hostage
June 9, 2011
Ohio Man Charged With Providing Support to Somali-based Terrorist Group
May
May 31, 2011
Iranian National Pleads Guilty in Plot to Illegally Export Missile Components and Radio Tests Sets to Iran
May 26, 2011
Iman From Trinidad Convicted of Conspiracy to Launch Terrorist Attack at JFK Airport
May 26, 2011
Tenth Somali Pleads Guilty in Pirate Attack that Resulted in Murder of Four U.S. Citizens
May 23, 2011
Married Couple From Toledo, Ohio, Pleaded Guilty to a Scheme to Send Money to Hizballah
May 20, 2011
Three Somalis Plead Guilty to Charges Relating to Piracy of Quest
May 9, 2011
Manhattan U.S. Attorney Files Narco-Terrorism Charges Against Alleged International Arms and Narcotics Trafficker
May 9, 2011
Southern California Man Sentenced to 25 Years in Prison for Convictions in Smuggling Schemes, Including Plot to Bring Surface-to-Air Missiles into United States
April
April 21, 2011
Somali Hostage Negotiator Arrested and Charged with Piracy in Attack on Merchant Ship
April 21, 2011
Colville, Wash., Man Indicted for Federal Hate Crime in Attempted Bombing of the MLK Unity March
April 7, 2011
Somali Sentenced to 25-Year Prison Term for Armed Piracy in Attack on Merchant Ship
March
March 23, 2011
Four Family Members Charged in Conspiracy to Export F-5 Fighter Jet Engines to Iran
March 15, 2011
Indictment Unsealed Charging Additional Member of Al-Qaeda Plot
March 10, 2011
Thirteen Somalis and One Yemeni Indicted on Piracy, Kidnapping Charges Accused of Pirate Attack that Killed Four U.S. Citizens
March 9, 2011
Pakistani National Indicted in Scheme to Illegally Export Restricted Goods and Technologies to Pakistan
March 9, 2011
Attempted Bomber Arrested
March 8, 2011
Former New Jersey Tech Company Employee Arrested, Charged With Exporting Sensitive Military Technology to China
March 3, 2011
Two New Jersey Men Plead Guilty to Conspiring to Kill Overseas for Designated Foreign Terrorist Organization Al Shabaab
February
February 17, 2011
Russell Defreitas Sentenced to Life in Prison for Conspiring to Commit Terrorist Attack at JFK Airport
January
January 26, 2011
Chinese National Sentenced to 97 Months Imprisonment for Illegally Exporting Electronics Components Used in Military Radar, Electronic Warfare, and Missile Systems
January 25, 2011
Statement of Manhattan U.S. Attorney Preet Bharara on the Sentencing of Ahmed Khalfan Ghailani
January 1, 2011
Bakersfield Man Sentenced to Five Years in Prison for Conspiracy to Act as a Foreign Agent, Export Military Equipment, and Possess Stolen Property

FBI
http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2011/december/review_122711/review_122711?utm_campaign=email-Daily&utm_medium=email&utm_source=fbi-top-stories&utm_content=58685

The FBI conducted thousands of investigations in 2011, from terrorists bent on murder and cyber thieves hacking networks to corrupt government officials and fraudsters stealing billions of dollars from innocent victims.

As the year comes to a close, here is a look at some of the most significant cases the Bureau investigated with the help of our domestic and international law enforcement and intelligence community partners.

Part 1 focuses on our top investigative priority: protecting the nation from terrorist attack. The death of Osama bin Laden in May was a milestone, but al Qaeda remains committed to high-profile attacks against the U.S. And on the home front, lone offenders radicalized on the Internet continue to pose a serious threat to national security.

Here are some of the top terror cases of 2011, in reverse chronological order:

Murder of U.S. soldiers in Iraq: A 38-year-old Canadian citizen was indicted this month by a New York grand jury for his role in the murder of five American soldiers in a suicide-bomb attack in Iraq in 2009. The individual was arrested last January in Canada, and the U.S. is seeking his extradition. Details <http://www.fbi.gov/newyork/press-releases/2011/alleged-terrorist-indicted-in-new-york-for-the-murder-of-five-american-soldiers>

Senior citizens indicted in ricin plot: Four Georgia men in their 60s and 70s were arrested last month for planning to manufacture the biological toxin ricin and purchasing explosives for use in attacks against American citizens. The defendants are alleged to be part of a fringe militia group. Details <http://www.fbi.gov/atlanta/press-releases/2011/north-georgia-men-arrested-charged-in-plots-to-purchase-explosives-silencer-and-to-manufacture-a-biological-toxin>

Plot against Saudi ambassador: Two individuals were charged in October for their participation in a plot directed by elements of the Iranian government to murder the Saudi ambassador to the U.S. with explosives while the ambassador was on U.S. soil. One of the individuals is in custody; the other is still at large. Details <http://www.fbi.gov/newyork/press-releases/2011/two-men-charged-in-alleged-plot-to-assassinate-saudi-arabian-ambassador-to-the-united-states>

Attack planned on U.S. Capitol: A 26-year-old Massachusetts man was arrested in September and charged with plotting to bomb the Pentagon and U.S. Capitol using remote-controlled aircraft filled with explosives. Details <http://www.fbi.gov/boston/press-releases/2011/massachusetts-man-charged-with-plotting-attack-on-pentagon-and-u.s.-capitol-and-attempting-to-provide-material-support-to-a-foreign-terrorist-organization>

Material support to terrorists: An Albanian citizen living in New York was charged in September with providing material support to terrorists for planning travel to Pakistan to join a radical jihadist fighting group. He was arrested while trying to catch a flight out of the country. Details <http://www.fbi.gov/newyork/press-releases/2011/new-york-city-resident-indicted-for-providing-material-support-to-terrorists>

Texas bomb plot: A 21-year-old soldier who was absent without leave was charged in July with planning to detonate a bomb inside a restaurant frequented by soldiers from Fort Hood. When he was arrested, the individual was in possession of a variety of bomb-making components. In November he was charged with additional crimes including attempted murder. Details <http://www.fbi.gov/sanantonio/press-releases/2011/federal-grand-jury-returns-superseding-indictment-against-naser-jason-abdo-in-connection-with-bomb-plot>

Plot to attack Seattle military installation: Two men were indicted in July for conspiring to use a weapon of mass destruction to attack a military installation in Seattle with the intention of killing U.S. citizens. Law enforcement first became aware of the plot when an individual alerted them that he had been approached about participating in the attack. Details <http://www.fbi.gov/seattle/press-releases/2011/two-men-indicted-in-plot-to-attack-seattle-military-processing-center>

Conduit to terror organizations: A Somali national in his mid-20s was indicted in July for providing material support to foreign terror organizations al Shabaab and al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP). He was captured in the Gulf region by the U.S. military in April 2011 and was allegedly a conduit between al Shabaab and AQAP. Details <http://www.fbi.gov/newyork/press-releases/2011/accused-al-shabaab-leader-charged-with-providing-material-support-to-al-shabaab-and-al-qaeda-in-the-arabian-peninsula>

Iraq bomb attacks: An Iraqi citizen who allegedly carried out numerous improvised explosive device (IED) attacks against U.S. troops in Iraq and another Iraqi national alleged to have participated in the Iraq insurgency were indicted in May on terrorism charges in Kentucky, where both were residents. Details <http://www.fbi.gov/louisville/press-releases/2011/two-iraqi-nationals-indicted-on-federal-terrorism-charges-in-kentucky>

Jihadist indicted: A 20-year-old Saudi Arabia citizen and Texas resident was arrested in February and charged with attempted use of a weapon of mass destruction in connection with the purchase of chemicals and equipment used to make an IED and his research of potential U.S. targets. The individual came to the U.S. in 2008 on a student visa. Details <http://www.fbi.gov/dallas/press-releases/2011/dl022411.htm>
 
This joke is older than dirt but

A farmer is in Iowa during a flood. The river is overflowing, with water surrounding the farmer's home up to his front porch. As he is standing there, a boat comes up, The man in the boat says "Jump in, I'll take you to safety."
The farmer crosses his arms and says stubbornly, "Nope, I put my trust in God."
The boat goes away. The water rises to the second floor. Another boat comes up, the man says to the farmer who is now in the second story window, "Jump in, I'll save you."
The farmer again says, "Nope, I put my trust in God."
The boat goes away. Now the water is up to the roof. As The farmer stands on the roof, a helicopter comes over, and drops a ladder. The pilot yells down to the farmer "I'll save you, climb the ladder."
The farmer says "Nope, I put my trust in God."
The helicopter goes away. The water comtinues to rise and sweeps the farmer off the roof. He drowns.
The farmer goes to heaven. God sees him and says "What are you doing here?"
The farmer says "I put my trust in you and you let me down."
God says, "What do you mean, let you down? I sent you two boats and a helicopter!!!"

Whether by luck or divine providence, you live in a country where handguns are readily available. You also live in a state where legally carrying one is simple. Furthermore, you have the financial means to buy one without too much hardship. What other kind of protection do you expect, exactly?
 
I can tell you, I have seen people that have been hit by ak and pistol rounds while wearing SAPI's...its not a joke, you will break ribs, you will get the wind knocked out of you and I know at least the SAPI plates issued to the Marine Corps are only rated to withstand a couple of shots, the ceramic plates crack and break apart after a few rounds. Its like getting hit in the chest with a hammer. If it doesnt kill him it will def slow him down and give you a chance to put him down. Also something that plates dont stop are moblility kills, or shots to the pelvis, shoot the hips, the target falls, keep pumping rounds into that area and try to hit under the vest or go for head shots.
 
Well said poopgiggle. I believe when you ask god for something he doesn't just plop it down in front of you he gives you the opportunity to get it yourself.
 
http://www.guns.com/...ter-church.html


A concealed carry permit holder in Boiling Springs, SC was able to detain a shooter at his local church this Sunday until Sheriff's deputies arrived on the scene.

Jesse Gates, an attendee at Boiling Springs' South Side Freewill Baptist Church was acting like he was having a heart attack on Sunday morning, according to Rev. Henry Guyton. Gates was cleared by EMS and left the premises, only to return later that morning and pull at shotgun out of the trunk of his car. Rev. Guyton's grandson, Aaron Guyton, saw Gates pull the shotgun out and immediately went into the main building of the church and locked the doors. Gates kicked in the side door. Aaron Guyton, a concealed weapons permit holder, held Gates at gunpoint while church member Jesse Smith and Leland Powers held him to the floor waiting for deputies to arrive.


Gates has been charged with second-degree burglary, disturbing a place of worship, kidnapping and three counts of pointing and presenting a firearm. The arrest warrants state that Gates pointed the shotgun at Smith, Rev. Henry Guyton and Powers and that the man intended to kidnap the pastor.
 
Great find Kevin!

I think there are a couple of truths that should be considered when one decides whether or not carrying in church is OK for them. The Bible as a whole is a violent book. God kills people throughout the bible Himself, and God uses people and armies to wipe out entire races of people. Example - King David was " a man after God's own heart" and he killed many men. Some killings where approved by God, some weren't (along with some other things he did). Jesus told His bros to sell their coat to buy a sword if they didn't have one, when they said they had two, Jesus said that was enough - He was good with it. But Jesus didn't approve of Paul's zeal with his sword when he cut off the guard's ear in Gethsemane. In my belief, killing is different than murder, if we want to think about the Commandments. I think in the Bible, as well as carrying in a church, it's about intent. Are we carrying because we might GET to use it, or are we carrying because we might HAVE to use it to save someone's life?

If it's something that you feel strongly about, on either side of the issue, stand by your convictions. If there are folks who think that carrying in church is a sin, than I would agree with them and call it a sin - for them, and not let it get in the way of what we are there for. If I carry in church because that's what I feel I'm led to do, that's between God and me. Scripture is clear on not judging folks, you don't know what's going on in their spirit, or in other parts of their lives. It's best to check ourselves and make sure it's not us in the wrong.

This is what I believe and I don't want to get into a pissing contest. I hate religion and the garbage it creates, but I'm tight with Jesus and I know He loves me no matter how big an ass I make of myself!
 
The idea of having a weapon on my person at Mass is so profane to me I might as well stand up during the Liturgy of the Eucharist and yell F**k!

My thoughts on Catholic doctrine run a bit differently. We are taught that God gave us freewill. It may well be the freewill of some person to come in while the mass is being celebrated and shoot, stab, etc. I will use the freewill God gave me to defend myself, my family, and, if necessary, others.

The liberalization of the Church has created many that would look down upon that attitude. I believe that, in the event of such an intruder, people would say "why did you let this happen, God. Why didn't you protect me." God, I believe, would reapond, "I gave you every tool you needed to protect yourself. You chose not to use them."
 
My thoughts on Catholic doctrine run a bit differently. We are taught that God gave us freewill. It may well be the freewill of some person to come in while the mass is being celebrated and shoot, stab, etc. I will use the freewill God gave me to defend myself, my family, and, if necessary, others.

The liberalization of the Church has created many that would look down upon that attitude. I believe that, in the event of such an intruder, people would say "why did you let this happen, God. Why didn't you protect me." God, I believe, would reapond, "I gave you every tool you needed to protect yourself. You chose not to use them."

You put my thoughts about this into words, good job
 
Have any of you heard about the Black Robe Brigade from the Revolutionary War? Its great having a gun tottin Bible thumper as a Preacher.
 
Kevin S. said:
Carrying a gun isn't a lack of faith. I have the faith that if I find myself in a situation where it's necessary to use my gun, God will give me the strength and judgement to do what is required so that I and other innocent people may continue to live quiet and peaceable lives.
It is nearly impossible to discuss these things without becoming an outcast in some people's eyes but I would like to respectfully disagree. Reason being, you could say the same exact thing about stockpiling food, I mean, storing food in case of an emergency isn't a lack of faith... is it? Scripture directly tells us that it is.

Read Matthew 6:25-34, which coincides with Luke 12:22-32. Jesus literally tells us to TAKE NO THOUGHT for our life, what we will eat, what we will wear, what we will drink, etc. Instead we are told to literally sell all that we have and give alms. That simply is not compatible with the mindset that we should stockpile and carry weapons. We are literally supposed to give it all away and trust that God will provide for us.


Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
 
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