Bye, Bye Reasors!

[Podman]

In todays's Tulsa World there is an article about open carry coming and various business reactions to it. I see where the
Reasor's grocery chain is getting ready to put up no guns allowed signs. I do most of my shopping there but will now go
elsewhere. Hope Brahms and Warehouse Market or WalMart or Walgreens don't do it. It's going to be interesting to see
how all this plays out. QuickTrip isn't going to ban guns so besides buying gas there I guess I might be getting some
food there too.

 

[dennishoddy]

I take my money to stores that don't post gun buster signs.

 

[Podman]

I plan to start giving by business also to stores that don't post gun buster signs. :yes:

 

[Jefpainthorse]

with open carry 2 weeks out many fine Oklahoma companies will start hanging signs out. When the SDA first come out 18,20 years ago the same thing happened.

This time it will be extra stupid. To legally OC in OK you have to have a SDA permit. Many people (of the few that will with regularity) are the same people who have carried with a gun covered for years.

I wont speak for any of you- but I CC'ed right past those signs the whole time I lived in OK (except the "felony places" Post office, city hall etc)

I'd expect any legal gun carrier to pull the shirt out or make arrangements to avoid the trespassing citation that always been waiting for us if caught.



Vote with your wallets... and let the managers know why. The signs will come down just like they did before.

 

[Matt1911]

I saw a news story where the manager of one of the restaurants in bricktown said "we plan to keep the crime out of our store and by not allowing people that are open carrying guns we feel we've done our part"
I think it was spaghetti warehouse.

So hey robbers... There's no resistance for ya.

 

[jtischauser]

I think it will take a manager with brass balls to ask you to leave.

 

[Jefpainthorse]

I think it will take a manager with brass balls to ask you to leave.

During the time I was there several people around OKC were "asked to leave" when a gun got untucked.I know of a couple of theaters that asked armed patrons to leave. Option to cover if you need too... I don't think you will see many open guns--- but at least it won't be against the law to remove your coat in your car anymore.

 

[ChrisC]

It won't be a trespassing charge, it will probably be a trip to jail and the loss of your right to carry.

 

[dennishoddy]

There will be a few "cowboys" but overall nobody will see any difference in day to day carry.

I've said this before. I've been in two states the have OC without the CC requirement. Alaska and Vermont.

I've seen folks with a 1911 strapped on and nobody gave them a side look.

Its a new deal, and the "freek out factor" will fade.

 

[Jefpainthorse]

It won't be a trespassing charge, it will probably be a trip to jail and the loss of your right to carry.

Cris...If your going to carry you ought to know the law. OC or CC... passing the sign if it's up makes you guilty of trespassing if they choose to press it. If you get a ride to jail... it's because you did something else. Freisen and other legal minds will tell you when you walk by the sign... your in violaton, People think the TEXAS law is bad...the signage has to meet standards for text and location. In Oklahoma- those signs get missed often. I cant tell you how many stores had them at ankle level on a glass door.

 

[dennishoddy]

If they ask you to leave, and you do, its no violation.

 

[WillR]

Don't know how it will play out. The SDA law is vague. Some say that for trespassing a warning is required so if asked to leave, go. Others say the sign is warning so if you are there and a cop is also you get arrested.

So I think don't do something to get arrested.

 

[ChrisC]

Jeff, just humor me just a bit and pretend I know nothing about SDA in Oklahoma... show me in statue where it is a trespassing charge....

because I'm going to stick with it becomes unlawful carry when you go into a prohibited area. mainly because that's what statue says and the SDA lesson plan.

now you could fall back on the business owners rights to forbid entry but since there is a more specific charge it would fall under unlawful carry.

 

[ChrisC]

Dennis, according to the trespass statue: No person shall willfully enter or remain upon the premises after being expressly forbidden to do so in the manner provided for in this section. Any person convicted of violating the provisions of this section, upon conviction, shall be guilty of trespass and shall be punished by a fine of not more than Two Hundred Fifty Dollars ($250.00) or by confinement in the county jail for a term of not more than thirty (30) days, or by both such fine and imprisonment.

which means if they have a sign and you willfully enter the building you can take the right to the county jail.

but since there is a more specific charge of unlawful carry, you also take the same ride to the cross bar hilton.

 

[jtischauser]

Are there laws on sign placement about trespassing?

I think the point nobody has made is we need to email or contact those anti gun establishments and let them know they lost out business. In fact I think we need a pinned list of establishments that don't allow carry.

 

[Jefpainthorse]

If they ask you to leave, and you do, its no violation.

Correct. I was reading a paper published for the Cities in OK (OML and some other associations had it written) and Doug Freisens recent remarks at H and H seem to indicate that blowing by a sign with an open gun is grounds for the charge.

True... the manager/owner may ask you to leave... or he may just call on you. It's a fine point but one to consider.

 

[Jefpainthorse]

Are there laws on sign placement about trespassing?

I think the point nobody has made is we need to email or contact those anti gun establishments and let them know they lost out business. In fact I think we need a pinned list of establishments that don't allow carry.

The folks at OCOK will be forming a list. The 'other' forum has collected lists of non carry freindly businesses. Reasors seems to get into anti gun mode once a year... last time we just rang the phone off the hook and they backed down.

OK has no regulation about uniform signs. "NO GUNS" in one inch letters at the bottom, top, middle or whatever could be construed as warning here. Texas has a standard sign...it cites statute and has to hung at a standard height.

 

[Jefpainthorse]

Jeff, just humor me just a bit and pretend I know nothing about SDA in Oklahoma... show me in statue where it is a trespassing charge....

because I'm going to stick with it becomes unlawful carry when you go into a prohibited area. mainly because that's what statue says and the SDA lesson plan.

now you could fall back on the business owners rights to forbid entry but since there is a more specific charge it would fall under unlawful carry.

I see your point. Simple trespass is not an automatic ride to jail charge.

 

[WillR]

So I think don't do something to get arrested.

These words of wisdom brought to you by Crown Royal. Make sure to thank your sponsers.

 

[ChrisC]

21 O.S. § 1835.1 Right to Forbid Entry or Presence of Persons Convicted of Certain Crimes into Businesses, etc.

A. Every person, partnership, corporation or other legal entity engaged in any public business, trade, or profession of any kind wherein merchandise, goods or services are offered for sale may forbid the entry or presence of any person upon the premises of the place of business, if the person has been convicted of a crime involving entry onto or criminal acts occurring upon any real property owned, leased, or under the control of such person, partnership, corporation or other legal entity. Such crimes shall include, but are not limited to, shoplifting, vandalism, and disturbing the peace while upon the premises of any place of business of the person, partnership, corporation, or other legal entity.

B. In order to exercise the authority conferred by subsection A of this section, the owner or an agent of the owner of a public business, trade, or profession must notify the person whom the owner or agent desires to prohibit from such owner's place of business.

C. No person shall willfully enter or remain upon the premises after being expressly forbidden to do so in the manner provided for in this section. Any person convicted of violating the provisions of this section, upon conviction, shall be guilty of trespass and shall be punished by a fine of not more than Two Hundred Fifty Dollars ($250.00) or by confinement in the county jail for a term of not more than thirty (30) days, or by both such fine and imprisonment.

D. The provisions of this act shall not preclude any other remedy allowed by law.

to be arrested for trespassing all it would require is the business owner posting notice that you are not welcome there. i.e. no gun sign. and you can be arrested for any misdemeanor statue that A, is violated in the officers presence and B. says "or by confinement"

still there is a more specific statue for unlawful carry and it is a "or by confinement" as well.

I agree with Jesse letting the business owners know that you will not conduct business with companies that don't respect your 2nd amendment right to lawfully carry a firearm.

I am exempt from those laws but I still let business owners know how i feel. an example is the c-store on route 66 on the way to okcgc range took down their signs a while back.. i gave them praise for that..

I expect to see more business owners putting up more signs because of open carry.