9mm NATO in DW?

Mike D

Well-Known Fanatic
Joined
Nov 13, 2018
Messages
205
Location
Greenwood, Indiana
With the really low prices on 9mm bulk ammo these days, I bought a DW Vigil in 9mm to supplement my .45's. I really like it, 4-5 hundred rounds, no problems. i have been using it as my edc for awhile. I have seen a lot of the 9mm NATO bulk rounds, and they are supposed to be on the same shelf as +P rounds. Does anyone know if the 9mm DW's are +P rated? (If that's a dumb question, forgive me, it's my first non .45 1911)
It seems to me that they may not be, as the steel slide on the aluminum frame will only take so much abuse over time. So, I ask the pro's here. Thanks in advanceupload_2018-12-19_13-0-56.png
 

SLAM37

Well-Known Fanatic
Joined
Sep 29, 2018
Messages
67
From the DW manual, page 4:
"All Dan Wesson 1911’a are capable of handling factory +P ammunition. Like any firearm, especially aluminum frame guns, it is unwise to fire high volumes of high velocity rounds."

It also states NOT to use +p as a way to expedite the break-in process.

Hope this helps.
 

Mike D

Well-Known Fanatic
Joined
Nov 13, 2018
Messages
205
Location
Greenwood, Indiana
Well didn't I miss that one! I was looking on the web sight descriptions, instead of getting the manual out. I always use a mix of the cheap, whatever I can find ammunition I have to do the break-ins, it's a good way to see if there is anything they don't like to eat. I don't, as a rule buy +P's for any of my guns,. just a good ole 45HP for me. I didn't carry any of my nines, just range shooting for them, until now, I always carried .45. I saw the Win/NATO 9 at a good price per 1000, thus the interest. I gotta say, I could get hooked on these 1911 9's pretty quick.
I have MANY CZ's in 9 also. Thanks for the info.
 

Mike Galway

Well-Known Fanatic
Joined
Nov 5, 2018
Messages
242
Location
East Central Missouri
Where did you hear NATO rounds were at the same level as plus P ? I shoot them quite often and don't feel a significant difference . I've put thousands of them thru my 1987 Sig P 226 no problem . Also thru my Kimber Pro Caryy II . Both alloy frames .
 

Mike D

Well-Known Fanatic
Joined
Nov 13, 2018
Messages
205
Location
Greenwood, Indiana
Where did you hear NATO rounds were at the same level as plus P ? I shoot them quite often and don't feel a significant difference . I've put thousands of them thru my 1987 Sig P 226 no problem . Also thru my Kimber Pro Caryy II . Both alloy frames .
I read that on SGAmmo. It was on the same page as the add for Win/9mm NATO ordering, awhile back.
At least I'm pretty sure that is where I read it. Mainly that to be designated a NATO spec round, they use a hotter load. I'm no expert by any means, but when it comes to the lighter weight, aluminum frames, I usually check to see if there are any restrictions, not that I will ever get to the wear-out point on any of my 1911's. Sorry if I quoted bad information, won't happen again.
 

david_root2000

Fanatic
Joined
Nov 6, 2018
Messages
14
9 mm Nato is 124 grain at a real 1200 fps. I have chronied them.

I have two 9mm 1911 now, None of the loads seem hot compared to a 45.

David
 

Mike Galway

Well-Known Fanatic
Joined
Nov 5, 2018
Messages
242
Location
East Central Missouri
I read that on SGAmmo. It was on the same page as the add for Win/9mm NATO ordering, awhile back.
At least I'm pretty sure that is where I read it. Mainly that to be designated a NATO spec round, they use a hotter load. I'm no expert by any means, but when it comes to the lighter weight, aluminum frames, I usually check to see if there are any restrictions, not that I will ever get to the wear-out point on any of my 1911's. Sorry if I quoted bad information, won't happen again.
I was just curious . My local Wal-Mart always has Winchester 9mm NATO available and cheap . Only difference I noticed was bullet weight . Most NATO countries side arms are alloy or composite frames . A few years ago I bought some Sellior & Beloit 9mm and was told it was a little hotter and not to shoot it out of a cheap gun .
 

Mike D

Well-Known Fanatic
Joined
Nov 13, 2018
Messages
205
Location
Greenwood, Indiana
Here's what it says on SGAmmo's site;

Winchester manufacture 9mm NATO ammunition part number q4318. This ammo is commercial grade ammunition that is loaded to M882 military specs with 10% higher pressure than standard 124 grain FMJ ammunition, thus it is +P pressure level (but not specifically marked +P). This ammo is excellent for sub machine gun use but will work well in any high quality 9mm Luger caliber weapon.


 

Mike Galway

Well-Known Fanatic
Joined
Nov 5, 2018
Messages
242
Location
East Central Missouri
Here's what it says on SGAmmo's site;

Winchester manufacture 9mm NATO ammunition part number q4318. This ammo is commercial grade ammunition that is loaded to M882 military specs with 10% higher pressure than standard 124 grain FMJ ammunition, thus it is +P pressure level (but not specifically marked +P). This ammo is excellent for sub machine gun use but will work well in any high quality 9mm Luger caliber weapon.

Thanks for the info
 

SLAM37

Well-Known Fanatic
Joined
Sep 29, 2018
Messages
67
I looked at the SAAMI website (https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Z299-3_ANSI-SAAMI_CFPandR.pdf) and found the following Maximum Average Pressure (MAP) values for 9MM on page 17:

9mm Luger (standard pressure): 35,000 PSI
9mm Luger +P: 38,500 PSI

Note: SAAMI does not have a standard for +P+ and does not list 9mm NATO either.

I looked at STANAG 4090 which is NATO’s Standardization Agreement for 9MM NATO cartridge (http://gigconceptsinc.com/files/STANAG4090-cartridge_9x19.pdf) and see that on page C-1 it states no individual pressure shall exceed 265 MPa (which translates to 38,435 PSI). Now, this document is dated April of 1982, but I don’t suppose much has changed.

If you look at a box of Winchester “White Box” 124 gr. 9mm NATO ammunition you see this label:

NATO.PNG

It states that these cartridges are loaded to 10% higher than industry standard pressure for 9mm Luger.

Since the SAAMI pressure standard for 9mm Luger is 35,000 PSI, 10% of that is 3,500 PSI – add the two together for 38,500 PSI for the Winchester 9mm NATO round which puts it squarely on the SAAMI specification for 9mm +P as well as the maximum chamber pressure allowed for 9mm NATO out of the STANAG.

I am no expert in this – but based on the available information I am led to the conclusion that the Winchester 9MM NATO load sold at Wal-Mart and other places is operating at pressures recognized by SAAMI as 9mm +P territory.

My takeaway is this: don’t treat this load like you would normal Winchester White Box 115 gr. 9mm Luger or any other standard pressure Luger load for that matter. Using the NATO load in large quantities will accelerate wear in a pistol rated for +P, just like +P does. If you are using large quantities of it in a pistol not rated for +P you may get much more than just “accelerated wear” – I am thinking more along the lines of damage over time.
 
Last edited:

SLAM37

Well-Known Fanatic
Joined
Sep 29, 2018
Messages
67
^^^ Thought about this more ... based on my post above, I am not sure that I would run the NATO load in my pistols as a range load due to the extra wear and tear it will cause over time. And because it is ball, I wouldn't want it for defensive purposes either. For a practice load I just don't see the benefit since 115gr ball is super cheap right now. If you have a sub-gun that needs the extra oomph, I could see that, but for me the juice isn't worth the squeeze for my pistols. Just my opinion -- YMMV.
 
Last edited:

Whiten

Well-Known Fanatic
Joined
Nov 4, 2018
Messages
81
Winchester nato shoots like my carry ammo. I can pick it up for around $8 a box. I mix a few mags in when I go to the range. I still use Rem UMC and Blazzer Brass 115 mostly for range ammo.
 

Doszap

Fanatic
Joined
Nov 6, 2018
Messages
6
9 mm Nato is 124 grain at a real 1200 fps. I have chronied them.

I have two 9mm 1911 now, None of the loads seem hot compared to a 45.

David
It won't seem as hot as the .45 because of the weight of the bullet.
9mm's get a bad rap, love .45's but the best 9mm's are as good at least as the 45's.
Pus the Win Q4318 NATO's at $8.99 a box Free shipping is a steal, load up while you can, sealed both ends,will last stocked for 50 yrs easy,in a stable climate.
Also is NATO ammo and Spec.
 

Doszap

Fanatic
Joined
Nov 6, 2018
Messages
6
^^^ Thought about this more ... based on my post above, I am not sure that I would run the NATO load in my pistols as a range load due to the extra wear and tear it will cause over time. And because it is ball, I wouldn't want it for defensive purposes either. For a practice load I just don't see the benefit since 115gr ball is super cheap right now. If you have a sub-gun that needs the extra oomph, I could see that, but for me the juice isn't worth the squeeze for my pistols. Just my opinion -- YMMV.


124 gr is much better than 115,esp NATO rounds,some 115's won't cycle in some 9mm's.
147's are too heavy and are really a silencer type round to me.(esp sub sonics)
 

Mike Galway

Well-Known Fanatic
Joined
Nov 5, 2018
Messages
242
Location
East Central Missouri
Most military 9mm sidearms are alloy and composite guns and they've always used it. As long as you're shooting a decent hand gun I wouldn't worry about it . I shoot it out of a Kimber Pro Carry II , Sig P226 , Browning Hi-Power , and a Citadel . No issues whatsoever . Sig P226 is a 1987 model with thousands of NATO rounds thru it . Still 100% accurate and reliable . Almost every time I go buy Wal-Mart I stop and get a 200 rnd. box . There will be another ammo shortage and I'm not going to get caught short again , but that's thoughts for another thread .
 

Latest posts

Top