well said, I couldn't agree more!!!
Why don't you carry?
- Thread starter Burk Cornelius
- Start date
well said, I couldn't agree more!!!
dennishoddy
Moderator
I'm totally onboard with this. Mess with mine, and pay the price. Judge by 12 vs carried by 6.
I've totally studied the SDA law, and have followed tons of info on it from other folks in the same situation.
Reading the law, it looks cut and dried, but then comes the DA's and court systems.
DA's are just polititions. They have to be elected and they enforce the laws according to what will get them elected the next time around.
I've served on a jury once, and although it was a minor thing, its not about what actually happened, its about what the attorneys, and the judge will allow into evidence. As a juror, your sworn to only judge on the evidence provided. The person was totally guilty, but the attorney was incompentent, and we had to let him go.
I do know that getting your ass beat in a fist fight is not enough reason to draw your gun according to the law.
But, that brings up another grey area. What if your attacked by a crowd? Would several people beating your ass justify deadly force, or brandshing? If you Brandish, you must be ready to pull the trigger. One could get in trouble here.
What if you are with your family, and a crowd becomes unruly, and you fear for your wife/kids life? At what level does fearing for their life become a situation where you present a weapon?
I guess my whole point in this thread is to say, read the rules, and do what your brain says to do, but expect to be arrested, and have to enter the court system in most cases. Some will be so obvious that you just go home, but that will be rare.
Troy, am I any where correct in my thinking?
dennishoddy
Moderator
I'll exempt myself from the damm fine shooters.
Burk Cornelius
Regular guy
I thought I was the only one that felt that way..............
Jefpainthorse
Fill in the Blank
I am another of those who wishes to be "left the hell alone"... and can attest that you will never get to pick the time nor place when S hits the fan.
None of the cliches about why "I carry a gun" are not cliches at all. Cops ARE to heavy to tote around... and sheep, wolves and sheep dogs are all around, we have a choice on the category.
About the only thing I resent about the whole carry gun situation is- we have to pay a user fee to carry the weapon of our choice legally. Other than that, I am glad we can- and I do.
None of the cliches about why "I carry a gun" are not cliches at all. Cops ARE to heavy to tote around... and sheep, wolves and sheep dogs are all around, we have a choice on the category.
About the only thing I resent about the whole carry gun situation is- we have to pay a user fee to carry the weapon of our choice legally. Other than that, I am glad we can- and I do.
bsdubois00
Head Honcho Emeritus
Honestly - I have never carried a weapon on me before - I've already contacted who I need to here in MS and in the market for my first pistol to carry with me day in and day out - Jackson has some very sketchy areas, as does the whole state of MS, and I travel a bit - so I'm often in places I don't want to be but half to so its time for me to do something about that and get my permit and actually carry. Now the task is finding a great slim ccw that doesnt stand out with a shirt and tie.
Okay, let me tackle this one bold-faced point at a time. (Disclaimer...I'm not a lawyer, but was a fan of Susan Dey on LA Law).
Getting your rear handed to you in a fist fight is not enough justification to use deadly force. At face value. However the severity of the beating you are receiving will be the determining factor in justification. Remember you are allowed to protect yourself from death OR great bodily injury. What is great bodily injury? That is the pivotal piece of the lethal force puzzle in this case.
Generally speaking, being battered by multiple assailants get us alot closer to the above statement. If defending your family against multiple assailants, same thing.
Expect to be arrested. But this is not always the case. If the situation is a clear cut case of self preservation, and if established at the scene of the event, you're probably going home. Now of course, this is greatly dependant on the police supervisor on duty and the Assistant District Attorney that is on-call.
Above all else, use common sense. Avoid spooky places with spooky people. Deny those who would harm you the ability/oppurtunity to do so. True, stuff happens. In the most unlikely of places.
Train hard. And not just with your firearms or your hands. Train your brain. Learn to recognize problems. You are the weapon, everything else is just a tool.
Burk Cornelius
Regular guy
Not fat, just HEAVY. And in his defense, you did call him a tool............
Back on track, I give this thread 5 stars.
dennishoddy
Moderator
I'm thinking you and I are pretty much on the same line.
A few differences that are minor to say the least.
I think the 1911 is far superior to the Glock. And if you ain't shooting a 45, you're a loser.
Just kidding. This type of topic is far more rewarding than the usual tools of the trade debates/discussions. Although I do enjoy those too (sometimes).
Do we have any SDA Instructor's on board? If so, would any be willing to donate a few hours on a weekend to provide a lecture on the subjects we've been talking about? I think it could be a worthwhile lecture, and a good oppurtunity for some good old fashioned male bonding.
Just kidding. This type of topic is far more rewarding than the usual tools of the trade debates/discussions. Although I do enjoy those too (sometimes).
Do we have any SDA Instructor's on board? If so, would any be willing to donate a few hours on a weekend to provide a lecture on the subjects we've been talking about? I think it could be a worthwhile lecture, and a good oppurtunity for some good old fashioned male bonding.
NL7CO
Well-Known Fanatic
Since I spend so much time on Ft Sill and traveling through the commercial side of airports, the actual time spent carrying vs not carrying is disportionate. But the amount of time that I can carry equals the time that I do carry.
I'm a big guy and the prefered gun is an HK45c with a TLR-1 attached. Since I'm still awaiting that holster from Blade-Tech, its carried in a strong side OWB with a very large polo draped over it and a flashlight just behind the support side hip. I am pretty bad about carrying extra magazines, but nine rounds of 230 grain Hydra-Shok are very comforting. There is also an emergency chest rig in the back of the car that has 3 PMAGs, 4 10-round pistol mags, a spare flashlight and an IFAK unless I am going on Sill or Tinker.
I used to carry a 1911 patern gun, but think that the DA/SA with a positive mechanical safety is more easily defended in court. It is such a shame that the has to be a consideration but I want to survive the real dangerous portions of the episode - the press and the courts.
I'm a big guy and the prefered gun is an HK45c with a TLR-1 attached. Since I'm still awaiting that holster from Blade-Tech, its carried in a strong side OWB with a very large polo draped over it and a flashlight just behind the support side hip. I am pretty bad about carrying extra magazines, but nine rounds of 230 grain Hydra-Shok are very comforting. There is also an emergency chest rig in the back of the car that has 3 PMAGs, 4 10-round pistol mags, a spare flashlight and an IFAK unless I am going on Sill or Tinker.
I used to carry a 1911 patern gun, but think that the DA/SA with a positive mechanical safety is more easily defended in court. It is such a shame that the has to be a consideration but I want to survive the real dangerous portions of the episode - the press and the courts.
Don mentions two very important pieces of gear that are often neglected, and IFAK (Individual First Aid Kit) and a flashlight. Specifically, the IFAK must contain a tourniquet. And one needs to know how to self apply the tourniquet. I read yesterday that the 75th Ranger Regiment has an extremely low indicence of combat deaths (although one death is waaaay to high) due to training they receive in individual first aid. If memory serves me they have expereinced a 3% fatality rate as compared to 30% in units that do not train to self administer. This translates greatly over here.
A flashlight just may get you out of a jam, when not able to carry a firearm. Bad guys do not like light. Especially when it is burning thru their eyes. Rule of thumb, buy the most light you can afford. At least 65 lumens. And ditch rechargable lights. Use batteries. And keep em fresh.
Sorry for the drift, but I think those two pieces of gear are essential and have bearing on this discussion. My daily carry: pistol, extra mag, folding knife, light, and cell phone. IFAK in the car, or stashed in my 5.11 man purse.
A flashlight just may get you out of a jam, when not able to carry a firearm. Bad guys do not like light. Especially when it is burning thru their eyes. Rule of thumb, buy the most light you can afford. At least 65 lumens. And ditch rechargable lights. Use batteries. And keep em fresh.
Sorry for the drift, but I think those two pieces of gear are essential and have bearing on this discussion. My daily carry: pistol, extra mag, folding knife, light, and cell phone. IFAK in the car, or stashed in my 5.11 man purse.
Burk Cornelius
Regular guy
Did you just call us tools, again?
This is a great idea and would be too much trouble. As soon as I get the sporting clays tournament done, I will look into it. Make sure to remind me Troy.
NL7CO
Well-Known Fanatic
Troy,
Airborne units as a whole, did a much better job of training self aid / buddy aid then the regular guys did when I was in. I never saw a training event that did not include casualties, particularly to the leadership. And of course, Benning's Boys Camp is all about the RI's defecating in your wheaties if you start to get competent at something to soon.
Seriously though, if you are involved in a gun fight someone is going to need first aid. Administering first aid to the POS you just put down will go a long way in court proving that you only used enough force to get the bad guy to stop harming the good guys.
Maybe a male bonding event after a match one month with a first aid instructor and some adult beverages would also be good.
Don
Airborne units as a whole, did a much better job of training self aid / buddy aid then the regular guys did when I was in. I never saw a training event that did not include casualties, particularly to the leadership. And of course, Benning's Boys Camp is all about the RI's defecating in your wheaties if you start to get competent at something to soon.
Seriously though, if you are involved in a gun fight someone is going to need first aid. Administering first aid to the POS you just put down will go a long way in court proving that you only used enough force to get the bad guy to stop harming the good guys.
Maybe a male bonding event after a match one month with a first aid instructor and some adult beverages would also be good.
Don
steak
Well-Known Fanatic
I can say that I carry when I can. My employer doesnt let employees carry but does allow customers to carry. That is why I spend as much time around the ammo case as possible without getting fired. I am counting on one of you jackholes being there buying some bullets and defending my azz long enough to get to the truck.
Wow what a thread. Tons of good info here.
I carry every day. Mod-66, 357combat 156 gr jhp.
I hope i never pull it but if i do i know it will handle what ever is before me.
where i work to carry is A-OK as most of us do. But you also need to keep in mind what i do.
Not all types of employment lend themselves to being able to carry.
I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
I carry every day. Mod-66, 357combat 156 gr jhp.
I hope i never pull it but if i do i know it will handle what ever is before me.
where i work to carry is A-OK as most of us do. But you also need to keep in mind what i do.
Not all types of employment lend themselves to being able to carry.
I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
Mitch Rapp
Well-Known Fanatic
Back to what Troy said in the earlier epic post about responsibility to carry. I do feel this kind of responsibility. I carry because I have realized how dangerous the world around me is. Like what was said in Grossman's article, the sheep around me may not realize their need of protection, and might shy away from the sheepdog and wish he wasn't around, untill the wolves show up. Like something I heard Paul Harvey say, "Columbine was a school that allowed prayer... AFTER the shooting started". I carry at church, and everywhere else I legally can. I am not supposed to carry at work......so I don't....usually....
I have also worked on improving my situational awareness. I may have gone too far on this, as I now get stressed out at the mall, trying to be aware of everyone, and everything around me. Luckily I only have to go to the mall 3-4 times a year. It is nice when your instincts start to "click" with how you are trying to train. I have started to notice my actions becoming more automatic. My wife has started to realize that it's not being paranoid, it's being prepared. The other day we went to a restuarant, and she had saved me a seat, facing the entrance.
Maybe my day to day living has some stress in it that didn't exist a while back. I would rather live with the added stress that comes with preparedness than with the guilt that would surely follow a lack of preparedness.
I have also worked on improving my situational awareness. I may have gone too far on this, as I now get stressed out at the mall, trying to be aware of everyone, and everything around me. Luckily I only have to go to the mall 3-4 times a year. It is nice when your instincts start to "click" with how you are trying to train. I have started to notice my actions becoming more automatic. My wife has started to realize that it's not being paranoid, it's being prepared. The other day we went to a restuarant, and she had saved me a seat, facing the entrance.
Maybe my day to day living has some stress in it that didn't exist a while back. I would rather live with the added stress that comes with preparedness than with the guilt that would surely follow a lack of preparedness.
Burk Cornelius
Regular guy
True, but I don't necessarily think that preparedness HAS to be stressful. It needs to be diligent but not stressful.
My wife is becoming the same way (I am so proud of her) She even catches some stuff that I miss.
Quick story: The other day we were leaving Wal-Mart and she had "that look" on her face and I asked her what was up. She said, "that guy over there is just standing next to that car acting strange" Sure enough he was and I didn't even notice him. Good job, 'chelle!
