Open 3-gun Shotgun Decision Making / Education

Matt Rigsby said:
Seems like you already had your mind made up and were looking for reassurance more than guidance.
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That's fair. After the above research, I was already leaning that way...

I have a limited budget but wanted something I could tinker with now, an possibly use in less than a month.

I admit, I'm quite intrigued by the 1919. I have access to a very good local gunsmith that is from the Czech Rep, Otto Matyska, and this gun will be right up his alley too.

I have more questions than answers rolling around in my head on the Benelli X-rail solution. I'm still not sure how that thing is reloaded in the field, or what those 'sticks' of shotgun rounds are... or how they work... or if that's the reloading solution used with the xrail benelli or not... I've heard 'xrail' and 'fully integrated xrail.' Not sure on the difference yet. I've also heard the complaints of the very heavy front end with heavily loaded xrail. So... that solution requires more research. I'd like to get my hands on one before I look at picking up a gun, smith work / modifications, plus xrail purchase and figuring out a reloading solution... Maybe I'm way off base, but even if I understood the full picture - seems that gun and equipment could hit $3500+ before all is said and done. I also don't see that coming together in a month.

Finally, *If* possible, I wanted to try and get something in hand - set up for open - before the area 3-gun state champ match in Rolla on Nov 3. A remote chance to hope I can get this in, test fired and bugs worked out prior to the match, but I don't see how I have any chance of that from the other routes I was looking at.

Again, worst case it sucks and I go another direction next year... at least I'll get an education,
 
Well it appears too late, but i was gonna say that I shot High Plains Shotgun Challenge with Robert at R&R. He was shooting that purple space gun he has on his site. I don't recall it choking all weekend. He seemed like a standup guy and was saying that he thought he had a reliable source for all the parts he replaces inside the Saigas. He sounded pretty pumped about them at that time. The 1919 would be the way to go if you can get it to run just for the price point and ergos.

If I were going open I'd go Benelli with the long tube and tec loaders. The one and only JM was also on our squad at High Plains and when he really "stuck" a reload with those tec loaders, well it was just a sight to see...
 
Open Div. at High Plains was won by Eric Crostley shooting a Saiga. Third place was Don Bednorz shooting a Benelli with a looooooong ass tube using tec loaders. Both were on my squad & it was awesome watching them battle it out back & forth. The different skill sets applied to shooting the different type guns & how they worked it into their stage plans was pretty interesting. In the end 1st & 2nd (Jerry M) was only seperated by 5.6% and 2nd & 3rd was seperated by 0.4% . Both Jerry & Don were shooting the same Benelli w/Tec Loader platform.
 
Its all good feedback guys. If this 1919 fails me miserably and proves too challenging to get running, I'll be back to the drawing board. I may work on an alternative gun setup for shotgun next year anyway for a backup and alternative after I learn more about the sport and stages.

I need to learn more about gear / rig next in open... guess that's a different forum though. ;)
 
Tactica said:
Its all good feedback guys. If this 1919 fails me miserably and proves too challenging to get running, I'll be back to the drawing board. I may work on an alternative gun setup for shotgun next year anyway for a backup and alternative after I learn more about the sport and stages.

I need to learn more about gear / rig next in open... guess that's a different forum though. :wink:
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I am looking forward to your experience with the 1919. This was my first year shootign 3-gun and I jumped into open as that is what I shoot mainly in USPSA... It wasnt and option late last year when I was buying my shotgun..

Talked with Ken Nelson at Ironman and NWMultigun and handled the 1919 he had and it felt good. Seemed to indicate that the mags were the bigfgest area of concern. I usually squad with 3 folks shooting Saigas and when they run they are awesome, but when I asked around and said I wanted somethign that would run and run and run during my first season of 3-gun the Saiga guys pointed me to the Benelli M2 as a starter setup for open.

I can say the M2 has been SOLID all year. Running the +9 tube with XXL cap, ghostload mod, and get 12+1+1 to start. Arrendondo speed chute with 4 and 6-round loader tubes and now that I have started weak hand tube loading I am getting faster.
 
Allen,

That's great testimony and thanks for sharing your setup. I'm happy to hear from some other 3-gun open shooters in these parts.

Agreed, on the 1919. If I can get it running, I'll be extremely pleased. I've heard the same on the mag problems... I'm hopeful those issues are in the past with lessons learned, newer mods and ammo issues resolved. Especially when I have 1. the later version of the 1919 i.e. a Serial number starting X120..., 2. Jim Lambert over a FP doing all the work and full overhaul himself on the gun, and 3. using the mags they assemble and test on the same gun I'll be using them in before shipping to me.

Proof's in the pudding of course, so we'll see. I realize I'm taking a risk here, but that's part of the fun in Open to me - tinkering with new gear ideas.

I've spoken with Jim and Nanci about the gun's intended use and that I'll be doing a review to share with other local shooters when all is said and done. I also shoot with enough folks in the bi-state area that this thing is either going to get a lot of good or a lot of bad press, one way or the other. :)

I'll definitely share a link to the review here on BS when I get it in hand and put it through it's paces a bit.

Again, thanks for sharing your setup! Much apprecaited.
 
Got the FP customized 1919 in this week. Should be shooting it this weekend to break it in. I have a selection of buck, slug and birdshot to run through it to see what it does / doesn't like. Should have some photos and feedback soon.
 
OK, here's a crude video... I figured video of seeing it shoot in action is better than photos, and I wanted to go shoot it... not stare at it, LOL... it dark fast and looked like rain moving in, so didn't mess with photos.

The video is really just a log of Day 1 ammo testing for future reference. I put a little over 100 rounds through it. Tried a small variety of bird and buckshot, plus one type of slugs. Stats of what worked in total and what didn't in total at the end. The thing was terribly fun to shoot.

I'll definitely be putting more rounds and a few more varities of shells through it. I can already start to see what it does and does not like to run.

BTW: I still have not figured out the cmore placement. I really wasn't using it, just shooting into the berm. If there is some school of thought on that as it pertains to shotguns, I'm all ears.

BTW 2: the 5-rnd mag is factory, the 10-rnd mag lowers are manufactured out of aircraft aluminum by firebird. The one set of mags coupled together is Firebird's coupling kit... (basically 3 cylinders and 6 screws).

BTW3: that handrail left side charging handle is NON-reciprocating.

Cheers,
 
Jesse,

Available from my signature... but I intended to put a link directly to the vide in the post... (heh, 4AM posting fail...)... try this:

 
Greg gave me a hand breaking in the gun further today, and we put another 100+ rounds through it. Different stuff this time. Still tested some soft and hard hull cases. Same results, hard hull smooth cases tend to feed better. Here's the vid...

http://youtu.be/MUOCkTuvjNM

Cheers,
 
Cool they go better than I thought they would,well they might. But it looks asthough it could be really fast if it feeds reliably
 
Proof will be wether I can get it to run reliably enough on match day with the different ammos and stress of match day. So, jury is still out. However, I've been pleased with certain types of ammo as can be seen in the video.

My next step is to find a slug that runs, and I have some to try, just gotta get back to the range.

Following that, I need to ensure I can repeat the successes I've had with the same ammo in the above videos that ran 100%. If I can get another box or two of each through the gun without fail, then I'll be sold on that ammo for match day.

I can tell you this much, the gun is crazy fun to shoot. After I get done with a mag, I tend to be smiling.

Hope to have more video in a week or so.

Cheers,
 
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