Zimmerman getting a "Stand Your Ground" Hearing

[Jason1]

Looks like he might be getting off without having to roll the dice with an emotionally biased jury


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/08/09/tand-your-ground-hearing-could-potentially-clear-zimmerman-in-trayvon-martin/

 

[Jefpainthorse]

As well this should be.

Let's see how impartial the media is when "Watts" (plus all other minority) areas burn when Zimmerman goes free.

 

[Jefpainthorse]

so far the trial has looked like the State is "phoning it in". I get a real sense they are guys who were handed a "cant win case" by the boss and got stuck with trying it.



The popular media is already fanning up riots and rallies in anticipation of aquittal. Pundits are discussing the possibilty of "conviction of a lesser charge" as "he (Zimmerman) must be guilty of something.

 

[Shootingchef]

this whole trial is a sham. He might get off, but his life is ruined. The media has convicting him, and that is all that matters. sad times in Amerika.....

 

[dennishoddy]

There was a reason he wasn't arrested and charged at the scene of the incident.
We are seeing why in court.

 

[benjamin-benjamin]

this whole trial is a sham. He might get off, but his life is ruined. The media has convicting him, and that is all that matters. sad times in Amerika.....

let's not act like he did nothing wrong and acted properly

 

[ChrisC]

The potus has condemned him in the media

 

[Scott Hearn]

A few facts about this case.

1) The tragedy happened.

2) The police show up and decide there's not anything that shows them it's not self defense, so they don't arrest.

3) The Seminole County State Attorney (fancy name for district attorney) finds that there's not anything that shows them it's not self defense, so they don't charge.

4) The Justice Brothers (Al Sharpton & Jesse Jackson) hop flights to Florida

5) Obama weighs in

6) National insanity ensues

7) The governor wusses out and appoints a special prosecutor.

10.) Obedient water carrier special prosecutor conducts a dog and pony show of an investigation.

9) Obedient water carrier special prosecutor naturally finds overwhelming evidence, so much in fact that a grand jury isn't needed and proclaims that murder charges are to be filed.

10) Police chief resigns.

11) Seminole County State Attorney (fancy name for district attorney) resigns.

12) You know the rest...

Some more facts about George Zimmerman. He went far, Far, FAR, FAR above the call in cooperating with the police and investigators. He did what every criminal defense attorney says not to. He didn't lawyer up. He did multiple interviews, answered questions for days, all without counsel present. His story is extremely consistent considering how long this process went on. Of course there are minor inconsistencies that are present in his statements, there's not a human on earth that wouldn't have the same considering how long it went on and how many in the investigation and all the reporters he talked to. Another thing he did "wrong" talking to the press. He had the appearance for any whom chose to look while all this was going on to be genuinely interested in giving them the truth. His story is amazingly rock solid with the evidence presented.

This case is a witch hunt, pure, simple and plain as day. After this is over there should be a few disbarred from practicing law IMO.

Edit: Another little factoid about this trial. The defense has appealed a ruling of the judge for something or another on 5 occasions during the course of this trial. The defense has won the appeal all 5 times. In other words, the judge's superiors have overruled her 5 times! Make no mistake, she's pissed about that!

 

[Jefpainthorse]

let's not act like he did nothing wrong and acted properly

Your gonna have to educate me on that.

Everybody ever involved in any act of self defense at any level could be second guessed. If either of these people would have changed one action we would not be watching a trial today.

Zimmerman - shoulda stayed in his car. Getting out and doing what he did violates no law.

Martin--- "Yes sir- my Dad's place is just up here a few doors. I am here to visit..." would have been enough to keep things from escalating."

Everyone of us has encountered people who's lack of demeanor has caused a situation to swing one way or another.

Mr and Mrs Martin raised a thug who's lack of manners may have left him no option but to punch a person some interest in his community.

 

[benjamin-benjamin]

Your gonna have to educate me on that.

let me ask a question. When i took my CCW class and the LEO teaching said. "Under no circumstances do you EVER approach someone that you think is committing a crime or is committing a crime. All you do is call 911 and go to someplace safe". Is that instruction right or wrong? Because either the LEO was incorrect and as CCW we have a right to "stop a**holes from getting away" and interrogate them or Zimmerman was wrong. The reality is the kid didn't commit a crime, he was racial profiled by a wayyyy overzealous guy. Once again i am not saying Martin is 100% perfect or shouldn't have acted differently, but one person not responding properly doesn't "wipe away" the faults of another. And i know people will say " really you are playing the race card", if this was a white kid, i can pretty much guarantee zimmerman doesn't go after him (there are numerous white kids in the neighborhood that aren't getting 911 calls when they walk to their house!). Watch the video below, even the black people didn't go after the white kid! and if we just want to look at hard numbers then can someone explain "According to research, African Americans receive up to 60% longer federal prison sentences than whites who commit similar offenses, and 20% longer prison sentences than whites who commit the same offenses." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_black_man_stereotype

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ge7i60GuNRg

i will cut and paste straight from the 911 call..

Zimmerman:
OK.
These assholes. They always get away.

911 dispatcher:
Are you following him? [2:24]
Zimmerman:
Yeah. [2:25]
911 dispatcher:
OK.
We don’t need you to do that. [2:26]

 

[Jefpainthorse]

And the LEO... Was he teaching "common sense" or what is in the State Lesson plan?


I agree that your better off being a " good witness" to a crime than getting knee deep in it.

The prosecution could not make the case Zimmerman violated the law regarding the dispatchers instructions -

As a point of argument... We could rationalize never investigating any bump- in the night or looking after a neighbors alarm - after all, the person we encounter could be a minority (profiling) and of course- we may get into an altercation.

This case should have never gone to trial

 

[benjamin-benjamin]

And the LEO... Was he teaching "common sense" or what is in the State Lesson plan?


I agree that your better off being a " good witness" to a crime than getting knee deep in it.

The prosecution could not make the case Zimmerman violated the law regarding the dispatchers instructions -

As a point of argument... We could rationalize never investigating any bump- in the night or looking after a neighbors alarm - after all, the person we encounter could be a minority (profiling) and of course- we may get into an altercation.

This case should have never gone to trial

Not debating "law", i never once said he broke the law, i said he did some things wrong. Our Justice system is not about right and wrong, it is about who can find the best loopholes. Is OJ Simpsons "right"? I would say no, but a court of law says he is. Also you are taking my point to an extreme and creating a straw man argument. So now if you see a black kid and a white kid and decide the black kid "must be a criminal" is now the same as not investigating a bump in the night? really?? He investigated by calling 911, then he should have stopped, period, IMO. I could take your argument and turn it into everyone waterboarding each other, but i won't because i know that is not your intent. It is obvious that i am not saying for everyone to hide in their closet. It is also very obvious he saw the person and based off of their looks, he then thought it "should be investigated", not even close to the same thing as seeing what a bump in the middle of the night is..

In a nutshell, there is the law and then there is a moral/ethically law. I think he broke the latter. Obviously an ethically/moral law varies from person to person. The reality is had he not tried to "stop some a**hole" and let the police do their job, a kid who was doing nothing wrong wouldn't be dead. IMO, there is some "fault" on his side and he is not "100%" correct. I am not the type of person that lets "laws" dictate to me who is "right and wrong". lastly, if you decide to confront a kid and can't defend yourself with your fists, then you should always wait for the police...

 

[Jefpainthorse]

Funny you should bring up the Simpson Case. The criminal case freed him on after the prosecution blew their case. As I recall... the media circus about the lead Investigators racial history (Mark Furhman) became the crux of the case instead of the actual evidence. It was a shame the Prosecution could not defuse that. Later the same evidence- judged under the civil law standard got a hefty financial judgment against Mr Simpson for wrongful death.

I agree... there are ethics and morality. "Investigation" and asking a question of someone who is not familiar in my neighbor hood is ethical.

As long as we are long on speculation here... for the hell of it- Let's say the kid continued on... found a unlocked door knob while Zimmerman went home.
If the kid doubled back and killed or raped a neighbor later during a home invasion- the press would be burning Zimmerman at the stake for being less than pro active.

Thank God we have "laws". "Morals" and "ethics" are subjective by nature. Geraldo Rivera and Nancy Grace don't practice for a reason ya know.

 

[benjamin-benjamin]

last post and then i am dropping it... you argument is
- he was walking home to where he was staying, but really looking around to rape someone (even though there is zero history and zero evidence to show this
-but fine let's make that argument, i can't remember anytime where someone called the cops, was told not to follow someone and then was "burned at the stake" for not being a vigilante, really? that is your argument..
- i guess you and me disagree on the point that someone should be able to walk home without be harassed and shot
- if a grown man can't handle a minor with his fists THEN DON'T CONFRONT HIM
- I guess i am shocked you consider it "OK" to confront people walking down the street based off of how they look.. never knew that was a CCW job...

 

[dammechanic]

last post and then i am dropping it... you argument is
- he was walking home to where he was staying, but really looking around to rape someone (even though there is zero history and zero evidence to show this
-but fine let's make that argument, i can't remember anytime where someone called the cops, was told not to follow someone and then was "burned at the stake" for not being a vigilante, really? that is your argument..
- i guess you and me disagree on the point that someone should be able to walk home without be harassed and shot
- if a grown man can't handle a minor with his fists THEN DON'T CONFRONT HIM
- I guess i am shocked you consider it "OK" to confront people walking down the street based off of how they look.. never knew that was a CCW job...

[SIZE=medium]Being the captain of the neighborhood watch, you should be able to keep a watchful eye on your gated community without getting your head pounded into the concrete. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Martin could have easily out run Zimmerman to the safety of his place of residence or call 911 and report a suspicious car following him, but he decided to jump out of the bushes and attack Zimmerman.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Does keeping a visual contact on a suspicious person walking around at night while calling the cops make you a vigilante? [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]All this is a sham anyhow. What is really on trial is concealed carry and the stand your ground law. That’s why all the liberals came out to apply political pressure.[/SIZE]

 

[poopgiggle]

The following statements are not mutually exclusive:

1. CCW and SYG are good things.

2. Getting out of the car and following Trayvon Martin in defiance of the explicit instructions of the 911 operator was a mistake.

3. George Zimmerman did not commit a crime.

I believe 1 and 2 to be true. I haven't paid enough attention to the evidence to feel strongly one way or the other about 3.

The general feeling in the gun community seems to be that if you're not 100% behind George Zimmerman and what he did, you're not pro-2nd-Amendment enough. That is dumb. You're criticizing the media for making this trial about CCW and SYG laws but you're doing the same thing.

 

[Scott Hearn]

The following statements are not mutually exclusive:

1. CCW and SYG are good things.

2. Getting out of the car and following Trayvon Martin in defiance of the explicit instructions of the 911 operator was a mistake.

3. George Zimmerman did not commit a crime.

I believe 1 and 2 to be true. I haven't paid enough attention to the evidence to feel strongly one way or the other about 3.

The general feeling in the gun community seems to be that if you're not 100% behind George Zimmerman and what he did, you're not pro-2nd-Amendment enough. That is dumb. You're criticizing the media for making this trial about CCW and SYG laws but you're doing the same thing.

As to #2. Mistake=Yes Look where it got him. But that's all it was, a mistake. The circumstances of the situation and political correctness cascaded on him into a murder charge. No murder occurred.

It's really sad that the vast majority of the population feel that they have to do anything what-so-ever ordered by a representative of governmental authority. I feel this comes from ignorance. Ignorance of our own rights and the role of government in general. My impression is that if one were driving on the busy freeway and called 911 for some reason, and the 911 operator told them to do a u-turn and drive the wrong direction that most probably wouldn't because that's just stupid and dangerous, but at the same time they would feel compelled to do exactly that.

Most think that GZ was following TM when the evidence states that he had actually quit following him upon the "order" from the 911 operator. The evidence states that he was actually looking for a street sign to tell them where he was and just happened to be going the same direction as TM had been going when last seen. The police believed GM's story. That speaks volumes to me. The state has produced exactly nothing to indicate anything else.

 

[Jefpainthorse]

It should be noted that Zimmerman's lawyers did not pursue a hearing based on "stand your ground" laws as written in Florida. The way law is written in Florida- they could have had the charges dropped on SYG- but they felt the evidence would prove worthy of a "self defense-defense" and winning on that basis would make a point.

They are not using that SYG statute as any part of the defense. They Defense has tried this case on simple grounds of self defense...

It seems as a fine point of law- the "self defense" part of the defendants decision to act "reset" as soon as the deceased threw his first blow.

If the State has a case- they should have NOT called witnesses who could not help that case. They sure won't make up ground by cross examination of the Defenses witnesses.

 

[drmitchgibson]

lol

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/03/27/10894561-zimmerman-accused-of-domestic-violence-fighting-with-a-police-officer?lite

 

[Jefpainthorse]

lol

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/03/27/10894561-zimmerman-accused-of-domestic-violence-fighting-with-a-police-officer?lite

and....

accused? Convicted? If we did a careful head count I bet we all know more than one guy with a similar history... and we would sell him a gun in a second. I

IF this was germain the STATE would have whipped up on it hard. It never came up the whole trial.