Wolf Ammo?

[OK Bowhunter]

I know that this has been asked thousands of times oln other sites, but from the post that I have read on this site the posters seem to have real working knowledge of what they are talking about. so my question is is shooting the cheap Wolf, Brown Bear/ Ruskie ammo bad for AR's or not?

 

[Dieseltech09]

not an expert but I have shot over 3000rds of cheap Russian ammo through my DPMS and haven't had any problems so far.

 

[Wall]

The problem with steel cased ammo is the Laquer that the cases are finished with.
If you shoot alot at one time or do alot of radpid firing, your chamber & Bolt Carrier Group heats up.
This in turn can melt the laquer from the casings & start to gum up the BCG (extractor, firing pin, etc).
The AR style rifles have a floating firing pin. If the firing pin gets stuck in the forward position, it's possible to have an accidental discharge when the the bolt moves the round to the chamber. This discharge can occur before the round is fully locked into battery.

So, yes, it can be bad, if you shoot enough to melt the laquer from the casings.
Most casual shooters are just plinkers/target shooters & don't push their rifles to the limits that may cause a problem (myself included). I stay away from it just because of the potential issues. My rifles cost quite a bit, I don't think a couple extra bucks on a box of ammo is worth the risk.

This info is just my opinion, YMMV. I assume no responsibility for the opinions expressed here & you should research this issue further & form your own opinion.

 

[bsdubois00]

What about the "WOLF GOLD" ammo - the Brass Cased Wolf?

 

[Wall]

Brass cased ammo should be GTG

If I were running my riffle in a match, I'd definitely use Brass cased ammo.

 

[Wall]

I guess the other issue with the cheap ammo is how dirty it is.
Do you enjoy cleaning your guns more often?

AR style riffles (unless piston driven) are direct gas impingment operated.
The dirty gas comes right back into the receiver where the loading, unloading, firing (basically all the business) is happening. The dirtier the ammo, the dirtier your business gets.

 

[jtischauser]

I have had stuck cases with the Wolf Silver Bear. Especially when shooting fast and alot and mixing in brass with the Silver Bear.

I have read of cases of damaged extractors with steel cases but have not experienced any myself.

I have had great success with the steel cased Monarch ammo form academy. KNock on wood but I can't remember having an issue with it ever and I ahve shot 1000-1500 rounds thru my rifle thus far.

I just bought a few hundred roudns of the Hornady steel cased practice ammo. I figured if Hornady is willing to put their stuff in steel cases it can't be all bad.

 

[Chambers]

[quote author=Wall link=topic=271.msg2075#msg2075 date=1286803980]
The problem with steel cased ammo is the Laquer that the cases are finished with.[/quote]

95% of the new stuff is actually polymer coated and doesn't gunk up your bore.

Ran 1,000 rounds of Brown Bear - which is actually cheaper than Wolf - during a class and had ZERO failures of any kind. A lot of this has to do with proper lubrication (i.e.: wet). The dirtiness of the powder is about typical for cheap production ammo like Rem UMC.

If accuracy is a requirement, look elsewhere, because the Russian stuff is the least accurate I have ever fired. 4 MOA is typical. Blazing away at short range, though, and it's obviously no problem.

I actually think the Bears (Brown, Silver, Gold) and Monarch are better than Wolf.

 

[Wall]

[quote author=Chambers link=topic=271.msg2083#msg2083 date=1286806225]
95% of the new stuff is actually polymer coated and doesn't gunk up your bore.
[/quote]

Correct, I was speaking from the surpluss ammo angle.
Usually when people ask about potential issues with the steel cases, this is the steel case ammo they're refferring to.
I should have clarified.

 

[Chambers]

[quote author=Wall link=topic=271.msg2087#msg2087 date=1286808256]
[quote author=Chambers link=topic=271.msg2083#msg2083 date=1286806225]
95% of the new stuff is actually polymer coated and doesn't gunk up your bore.
[/quote]

Correct, I was speaking from the surpluss ammo angle.
Usually when people ask about potential issues with the steel cases, this is the steel case ammo they're refferring to.
I should have clarified.
[/quote]

Ahh...I've actually never even seen lacquer-coated stuff. There is definitely a reason they quit making it!

 

[Wall]

[quote author=Chambers link=topic=271.msg2094#msg2094 date=1286814545]
[quote author=Wall link=topic=271.msg2087#msg2087 date=1286808256]
[quote author=Chambers link=topic=271.msg2083#msg2083 date=1286806225]
95% of the new stuff is actually polymer coated and doesn't gunk up your bore.
[/quote]

Correct, I was speaking from the surpluss ammo angle.
Usually when people ask about potential issues with the steel cases, this is the steel case ammo they're refferring to.
I should have clarified.
[/quote]

Ahh...I've actually never even seen lacquer-coated stuff. There is definitely a reason they quit making it!
[/quote]

It's fine for bolt guns

 

[Spiff]

[quote author=Wall link=topic=271.msg2095#msg2095 date=1286815897]
[quote author=Chambers link=topic=271.msg2094#msg2094 date=1286814545]
[quote author=Wall link=topic=271.msg2087#msg2087 date=1286808256]
[quote author=Chambers link=topic=271.msg2083#msg2083 date=1286806225]
95% of the new stuff is actually polymer coated and doesn't gunk up your bore.
[/quote]

Correct, I was speaking from the surpluss ammo angle.
Usually when people ask about potential issues with the steel cases, this is the steel case ammo they're refferring to.
I should have clarified.
[/quote]

Ahh...I've actually never even seen lacquer-coated stuff. There is definitely a reason they quit making it!
[/quote]

It's fine for bolt guns
[/quote]

I like shooting small things far away with my bolt guns.

 

[Wall]

yeah, you probably won't be doing that with this stuff.

 

[Commander Keen]

The problem with steel cased ammo is the Laquer that the cases are finished with.
If you shoot alot at one time or do alot of radpid firing, your chamber & Bolt Carrier Group heats up.
This in turn can melt the laquer from the casings & start to gum up the BCG (extractor, firing pin, etc).
The AR style rifles have a floating firing pin. If the firing pin gets stuck in the forward position, it's possible to have an accidental discharge when the the bolt moves the round to the chamber. This discharge can occur before the round is fully locked into battery.

So, yes, it can be bad, if you shoot enough to melt the laquer from the casings.

I believe you are a little off the mark with the laquer melting, my friend.

The steel cases used in Russian/mil surp ammo is harder than the brass we Americans prefer, and do not seal the chamber quite as well as the round fires, and this allows carbon to get into the chamber. Once enough of the carbon has built up, a switch back to brass-cased ammo may well result in fte(xtract).
This is due to the brass cases expanding as the round is fired and then getting "stuck" in the carbon build-up.

I believe the guys over at The Box o' Truth did a bit about this. I'll try to find the link..

 

[jtischauser]

I have read an article saying something similar. I am not sure I buy it 100% though. If I shoot enough silver bear it sticks too. So the coating does affect rounds sticking.
I just wonder if the Russians are always fighting stuck cases too or if they use a tighter chamber dimension so that the steel cases expand fully and seal in their guns. .

 

[irons_shooter]

Just FYI, Mr weakhand and I were unsuccessful at melting the finish of the steel cases with a torch in a reasonable amount of time. Stuck cases are a result of certain chambers and weak extractor springs. I don't run it anymore because it only cost me $130 per thousand to reload and it is cheaper than buying steel case ammo. Plus for that cost I am loading ammo that will hold moa or better. Load your rifle ammo! It's better and cheaper by far.

 

[ChrisC]

95% of the new stuff is actually polymer coated and doesn't gunk up your bore.

Ran 1,000 rounds of Brown Bear - which is actually cheaper than Wolf - during a class and had ZERO failures of any kind. A lot of this has to do with proper lubrication (i.e.: wet). The dirtiness of the powder is about typical for cheap production ammo like Rem UMC.

If accuracy is a requirement, look elsewhere, because the Russian stuff is the least accurate I have ever fired. 4 MOA is typical. Blazing away at short range, though, and it's obviously no problem.

I actually think the Bears (Brown, Silver, Gold) and Monarch are better than Wolf.

i was in the same class as Chambers but i shot both umc and wolf and had failure to extracts with both, UMC first then Wolf.

that being said I went him and changed extractor springs and then when to CLEET patrol rifle instructor school with, you guessed it, wolf... and zero problems

i can tell you it groups as good out of my gun at 400 yards as people shooting brass cased fmj ammo from pick your choice of manufactures...(most using iron sights)


i shoot the crap out of the cheap stuff and it works...