What distance to zero angled iron sights?

[Boxerglocker]

I’ve been eyeing the Dueck Defence angled iron sights for a while but never really had the coin to splurge the $200+ to try them out. Then I see a great close-up of Jessies Stag set up with standard BUIS mounted on his Samson Evolution rail in the 3-gun web magazine. My current rifle is a Rainer Arm RUC 14.5 with only a 12 inch rail. I have a Vortex 1-4 and Diamond head sights as back-ups folded down. Anyways I figured for $15 for a set of Samson 2 inch rails . I can mount my current sights at 45 degrees on the rail. I realize that with only a 12 inch rail and the rear sight mounted forward that it’s not as optimum as actual Duecks. However I figured if it works great, if not at least I get a better idea if it’s right for me.

So question is what distance should I zero the angled irons. I’m thinking 25 yards but debating if I should go 50-220 like my scope. What do you guys think?

 

[Wall]

The purpose of the offset sight is for rapid aquisition on close targets.
Your zero for them should be within the range of what you'll be using them for.

 

[jtischauser]

I saw a post on Facebook where Trip McGinvale shot his offset Dueck sights out to 700 yards or something crazy like that. I can't even get my head around that working out right since the line of sight only crosses the bullet path once. But if anybody can do it Trip could. He is a riflemen!

Anyhow mine are on at 25 yards. I can take a head shot with the big rear opening at 25. That's about as much as I want to aim with a half ass cheek weld.

I have used mine multiple times in matches on stages with long range shooting and short range mixed in. It's really easy and fast to just keep the Swaro dialed up to 6X and use the offsets to hose paper on the go.

 

[KurtM]

Line of sight crosses the bullet arc TWICE. Once on the way up and once on the way down, unless you live in a non gravity world.....like Jesse.

 

[jtischauser]

Isn't the barrel pointed away from the line of sight though since the sights are offset?

 

[KurtM]

Good question, but no. The barrel and sights don't know what orientation they are in....stupid barrel.....trying to sound like Homer. Once you turn the gun over to use the sights, it is just like they are on the top. So the barrel is below the sights and to zero it the barrel has to point up just like usual so the bullet crosses up and once again down way out yonder. Just like your scope. Matter of fact your 25 yard zero is just about like a "combat zero" on regular iron sights. This is much easier to explain over beer...after the match on Saturday work for you?

 

[jtischauser]

Ah duh! I keep thinking the barrel is pointing upwards in relationship to the receiver not the scope. Which is why I was thinking it should be shooting low and away from the mag like it would if you rotated the gun sideways 90 degrees and used the primary.

The problem I have with my offset irons is that the rear perp is pegged all the way to the side of my rear sight base. I can adjust it any further to get an exact zero at 25 even. I'm an inch off left which is also why I was thinking it just keeps shooting further and further left as it would if I was using the primary optic.

 

[jtischauser]

I would take u up on that beer if I was around. I'm getting back late Saturday from Disney. Ill need at least 12 beers to get normal again.

 

[silver star]

Once you turn the gun over to use the sights, it is just like they are on the top. So the barrel is below the sights and to zero it the barrel has to point up just like usual so the bullet crosses up and once again down way out yonder. Just like your scope. Matter of fact your 25 yard zero is just about like a "combat zero" on regular iron sights.

I'm hearing what is being said but I can't quite get my brain to apply.
I was praticing shooting my rifle at the long range this week with rifle turned 90 degrees left with scope.
I have to put cross hairs hi and right for 100 yd with success. I could never hit target at 200yd.
I will have to have a spotter for that.
So the the barrel/bullet orentation just got more confusing. Would love to hear more.

 

[silver star]

Dang Jesse, I had to think about that.
Rifle turned 90 degrees left, point of impact is low and left, that is why I have to aim hi and right. Got it.
I see why beer can help the lesson go down.

 

[WillR]

I had to think about this a lot earlier this year at CMMG. They forced shots with the gun at 90. And had some long shots. So basically hold high and to the side your mag is pointing. Takes a little work to figure out but it's good to do it when the timer isn't running.

Edit. That's for the scope. Not the offsets. The bullet is on a whole other arc tilted at 45. I have the JP offsets. Just use them for close stuff. Zero is 25 yards. The only thing then is to remember to aim high at very close precision shots.

 

[jtischauser]

I had to think about this a lot earlier this year at CMMG. They forced shots with the gun at 90. And had some long shots. So basically hold high and to the side your mag is pointing. Takes a little work to figure out but it's good to do it when the timer isn't running.

Edit. That's for the scope. Not the offsets. The bullet is on a whole other arc tilted at 45. I have the JP offsets. Just use them for close stuff. Zero is 25 yards. The only thing then is to remember to aim high at very close precision shots.

As Kurt points out that's not the case with the offsets. I was locked in mentally to that sideways rifle stuff im relation to the primary optic I memorized and was thinking it pertained to the offsets as well.

 

[silver star]

Edit. That's for the scope. Not the offsets. The bullet is on a whole other arc tilted at 45. I have the JP offsets. Just use them for close stuff. Zero is 25 yards. The only thing then is to remember to aim high at very close precision shots.

Okay, this out loud thinking is meant to end with a question.
Sights, optic or iron, at 12 o'clock with zero. Bullit arc crosses line of sight twice.
Line of sight for visual, is 6 o'clock so pull the trigger, bullit exits at 6 o'clock-goes up to 12 o'clock and back down to 6 o'clock. Yes?
Turn sights to 9 o'clock pull the trigger.
Question; standing back from gun watching path of bullit, does it still exit barrel at 6 o'clock, go to 12 o'clock and back down to 6 o'clock?
I am not going to ask if bullit goes to 3 o'clock over to 9 o'clock and back to 3 o'clock, no-nope-nada, not going to do it.
Oh look at the time, I got to go check my turkey frying oil.
HAPPY THANKSGIVING FOLKS!!!!

 

[jtischauser]

It goes up (if the barrel is pointed up) then back down in any orientation.

Now if you take the entire gun and flip it upside down and try to use the set of sights that was zeroed in a different alignment all bets are off.

 

[KurtM]

No Michael if your sights are at 3:00 the bullet will go to the right and drop.

The whole deal here is that the barrel is square to the receiver. In order to get the bullet to hit point of aim we must point the barrel up with our sighting device. When we use off-set sights we ROLL THE GUN so that the off-set sights are now UP , just like our primary sights. Now they are just like the regular sights in the fact that the sight artificially points the barrel up FOR THAT ORIENTATION!!

If you held your rifle at 45 degrees and put your optics on top dead center of the barrel it would shoot just the same as an optic that was centered at top dead center.

 

[Troy]

It looks like some others have put a lot more thought into these offset sites than I ever did. After the match today, I believe some offset sights are in my future. My question, if I may ask, iron sights, or red dot? Any advantage of one over the other besides the possible battery failure in the red dot?

 

[jtischauser]

It looks like some others have put a lot more thought into these offset sites than I ever did. After the match today, I believe some offset sights are in my future. My question, if I may ask, iron sights, or red dot? Any advantage of one over the other besides the possible battery failure in the red dot?

Red dots r cool but they put you in open.

 

[Troy]

I never would have thought they would put you in open, I guess that answers my question, for me anyway.

 

[Tharpinator]

In sniper school we were taught that with the gun at a 90 (so what is normally you vertical crosshair is now horizontal), you hold 1.5 mils of "windage". This was with an M110 with a Leupold Mark 4 with the TMR reticle in it. Obviously specific mil holds wont work for you if youre not running a mil reticle, which Im guessing arent to popular in the 3 gun world.

 

[Scott Hearn]

In sniper school we were taught that with the gun at a 90 (so what is normally you vertical crosshair is now horizontal), you hold 1.5 mils of "windage". This was with an M110 with a Leupold Mark 4 with the TMR reticle in it. Obviously specific mil holds wont work for you if youre not running a mil reticle, which Im guessing arent to popular in the 3 gun world.

Very much more of this 90 degree nonsense and I bet they get popular!