This stuff is gonna leave a mark...

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Johoevasmatrix said:
How is this legal but black talons are not.

Black Talons are legal. Winchester/Olin stopped making them in the 90s due to public outcry. They were never specifically outlawed, although some states (NJ in particular) have laws against hollow points generally.

Winchester SXT or T-series are slightly evolved black talons without the black oxide (not teflon) coating.

Winchester PDX1 is a direct descendant design-wise and is the issue ammo for the FBI.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Talon
 
I could of used this as I was attacked by some ice the other day. I need this for balloons also. $42.00 for 9mm 20 in a box. Downpayment required for Lawyer on retainer.
 
sc1911cwp said:
I could of used this as I was attacked by some ice the other day. I need this for balloons also. $42.00 for 9mm 20 in a box. Downpayment required for Lawyer on retainer.

Lol $42??

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =389301619

$305!

20 boxes sold on another listing, $150 PER BOX. Cheapest I saw was $110 for one box.

These are the same guys buying .22lr for $100 per bulk pack
 
Tigerstripe said:
hince the glock 18 demo.

I was impressed by demo, but I've become concerned recently that sales demos may not be presented in a way that illuminates the weaknesses of a product.
 
Ya don't say... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Personally, I'm a big fan of Science. Science uses predictive math (theories) and tests those theories in the real world to obtain data. When the data is crunched, absolute references can be made.

Hence all major modern expanding ammunition is similar, in that they use tapered skived jackets to control expansion. The point of expansion is not to cut/bludgeon/maim through the game animal or badguy, but to ensure that the round stays in the body cavity to expend all its energy there (as opposed to a through-and-through, where not much energy is transferred from projectile to body). As much as I'd like to believe that the HST/SXT/T-Series etc. petals do more damage due to the cutting action, in reality they're just air-(flesh?) brakes for the projectile itself. After nervous system/major organ pinpoint shots, energy dump is king.

What all that means is that I don't give a lot of credence to the latest mean-looking thing to come out of the Shot show unless it is backed by an awful lot of science. The kind that you usually need a large corporation (Winchester, Federal) to do. Not always - I'll grant that.

Me, I don't need to have a 1-shot kill (purported) bullet. 9mm is fairly cheap - I can be generous and give the badguy a few.
 
Seems the projectile is more of a gimmick to me... Also it's a really light bullet, 92gr... Granted, I do use 115gr, but... I don't know. I'd rather never need to use the weapon for self-defense, but if I do, I don't want to stand in front of a jury telling them that I was shooting to STOP with rounds designed to shred....
 
i dont agree with trying to stop someone like the shoot his gun from his hand.

if you shoot them in the gut it might or not stop them.

if i think i wont walk away alive then its kill or be killed. no screwing around.

isnt that why we carry?
 
Another addition to the "If we build it, they will buy it" philosophy. Kudos for creativity. And if it's expensive, and in short supply, and looks like something that might be banned, all the more so. It also appears to be lead-free kali-friendly, so you don't have to worry about poisioning the buzzards.
 
Tigerstripe said:
i dont agree with trying to stop someone like the shoot his gun from his hand.

if you shoot them in the gut it might or not stop them.

if i think i wont walk away alive then its kill or be killed. no screwing around.

isnt that why we carry?

It is a matter of semantics. Legally, you can only shoot someone to defend your life or person from great bodily harm. When they stop attacking, you must stop shooting. That is shooting to stop, not shooting to kill.

In practice, it is the same thing. A defensive shooting is not where you have time to make a carefully aimed shot. You shoot for center mass... which is pretty likely to kill someone.
 
Yeeeeah not so much.

Some tests are starting to come out now using actual proper standards for testing. And in summary, it's crap. Will it hurt? Sure. Will it leave a nasty shallow flesh wound? Sure. But is it going to do what you want a good SD round to do? Nope. Most of the mass is breaking away and penetrating no more than 4-5 inches in gel. Not to be overly blunt, but what happens 4-5 inches in a gel block is utterly worthless. And whats left is barely penetrating deep enough into the block to do anything, is smaller in diameter than is desirable, and is making a wound channel that makes FMJ look good.

Longer version, for those inclined to details-
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/0 ... ore-293429
 
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