Syria

[Bob Sanders]

I'm serious here. Can someone please explain how the United State's response to Assad killing his countrymen, should be for us to kill more of them? Seems to me those folks don't want us in their business, from either side of the issue. I'm not an isolationist, and I know it's tragic beyond measure, but it just seems we don't need a dog in that fight. Am I wrong? I don't want this thread to become a heated exchange, but I'm curious if my view is missing something.

 

[drmitchgibson]

The missle strike is about retaliation for the chemical attack. It's about justice in terms of what's acceptable in modern warfare, which has excluded chemicals weapons for a long time. The goal is retribution for being a line-stepper. Not that we haven't used Agent Orange or anything... I'm not sure why we're in the war-crime justice business, but I bet it has everything to do with military-industrial lobbying.

 

[poopgiggle]

For whatever reason, the President said that there would be consequences if Assad's regime used chemical weapons. Assad's regime used chemical weapons, and so to remain credible we had to blow something up.

I'm not super educated on the geopolitical consequences of the Syrian civil war but I imagine that it has a negative effect on oil prices if nothing else.

Realpolitik aside, if you've got the biggest military in the world, there are worse things to use it for than bitchslapping people who gas their own citizens. A significant portion of the backlash I'm seeing stems from a "who gives a damn if mooslims kill each other" mindset.

 

[RigPig]

Realpolitik aside, if you've got the biggest military in the world, there are worse things to use it for than bitchslapping people who gas their own citizens. A significant portion of the backlash I'm seeing stems from a "who gives a damn if mooslims kill each other" mindset.

So.... we "punish" Assad by bombing the people he's been gassing? Who are we to police the world? What happens when we stick our noses in other countries' civil wars? Anything good for our country? Does Assad pose any credible threat to the U.S. or it's interests? Didn't think so.

 

[poopgiggle]

So.... we "punish" Assad by bombing the people he's been gassing?

Presumably we bomb strategic locations like airstrips or command centers. Not every square foot of Syria has innocent babies on it.

Who are we to police the world?

The dudes with the biggest stick. An argument can be made that we have a moral imperative to help innocent people if others can't or won't.

What happens when we stick our noses in other countries' civil wars? Anything good for our country? Does Assad pose any credible threat to the U.S. or it's interests?

I can see two reasons we ever have to intervene in the Middle East: Israel and oil (there may be more). Syria has a pretty big effect on both. If the Assad regime is really committing war crimes, that will probably foment greater unrest in both Syria and the region in general. Stabilizing the region means picking a horse and betting on it, and at this point it's pretty hard to justify picking the current management.

Didn't think so.

These are complex issues, and acting like there's an obvious answer to any of them betrays the fact that you haven't put much actual thought into it.

 

[Wall]

For whatever reason, the President said that there would be consequences if Assad's regime used chemical weapons. Assad's regime used chemical weapons, and so to remain credible we had to blow something up.

the problem with talking elephant dung, is sooner or later you'll probably have to back it up.

 

[scubor2]

the problem with talking elephant dung, is sooner or later you'll probably have to back it up.

That's why Obama laid the ball in someone elses court to decide. I seriously doubt it was because he was trying to follow the constitution or follow the will of the American people.

 

[Scott Hearn]

When I look at this deal I try to look at it in very broad terms. So here are a few rambling thoughts.

1) Who in the world in making noise? Answer: Us. The brits were making noise but after their legislature debated it, they told their PM to STFU and he pretty much did from what I can tell.

2) Do we even know who gassed who? Answer: No. We only know that people were gassed. The U.N. didn't even try to figure that one out. Hmmm...
Rush was saying today the someone in the Obama admin helped organize the rebels using the gas in order to bring the heat on Assad. Think what you will about Rush, but he doesn't spout this stuff off unless he's done his homework and has something to back it up with from multiple sources. Hmmm....

3) McCain said (I'm paraphrasing) "that the US President has made a statement to Assad. If we don't back him up the U.S. will have no credibility in the world". Okay McCain, first one has to assume that we have credibility to begin with. Okay? What planet are you on? We haven't had any credibility in these matters since Reagan because he's the last one that had enough of a set to make everyone think he'd wield our big stick. Go back to AZ and STFU already!

4) Who benefits from a gas attack? Answer: Certainly not Assad. He's an evil prick, but anything we do to weaken him helps the Al Qaeda types. It's just that simple.

5) Benghazi anybody? The mantra is that we have not helped the rebels with humanitarian aid and small arms even though it's been "approved". Really? Why in Sam Hell were we in Benghazi then? Answer: They were running arms into Syria.

6) Supposed to send a message? Like they give a elephant dung what we think? Did they ask our opinion? I must have missed it. Besides the only message they understand is overwhelming force. That ain't gonna happen with 200 Tomahawks. Put 50,000 troops in there and they still won't get it. Assad is hanging out deep under a mountain somewhere and his most valuable armament is scattered around the dessert playing hide and seek. A strike isn't going to do a damn thing except expend about $290,000,000 worth of our armament.

7) What do the Israelis think? Dunno but we know that they have no love for him, but I haven't heard them calling for Assad's defeat either. They are just staying calm and quietly preparing to take care of business. Hmm....

I hypothesize that this is all to cover up the fact that this gas or a good portion of Syria's WMDs came from Iraq. It's pretty commonly known that Saddam Hussein stashed them there. He only had 6 months to do it while Bush was playing tiddlywinks with the U.N. before going in, there's just no "smoking gun" yet. If the dims let that get out it won't make them look good. That is what I think this is all about. Pretty pathetic isn't it? I wouldn't have such a problem if Obama had a clue and a foreign policy to go with it. But he'll just get us in deeper because he's an imbecile. It won't be quick. It won't be short. He doesn't have the nads to do what it takes to pull that off. We haven't had that in D.C. for a long long time.

 

[scubor2]

It's like playing golf with a meth head. You think you are playing golf, he thinks we are burying explosives. Trying to figure out what goes on in their minds is absurd. It's like trying to communicate with aliens. We always end up playing the wrong tune.DUNN,DUNN,DUNN,Beep,BEEP.

 

[poopgiggle]

Think what you will about Rush, but he doesn't spout this stuff off unless he's done his homework and has something to back it up with from multiple sources.

This made me laugh out loud. For real.

 

[argyle64]

For whatever reason, the President said that there would be consequences if Assad's regime used chemical weapons. Assad's regime used chemical weapons, and so to remain credible we had to blow something up.

I'm not super educated on the geopolitical consequences of the Syrian civil war but I imagine that it has a negative effect on oil prices if nothing else.

Realpolitik aside, if you've got the biggest military in the world, there are worse things to use it for than bitchslapping people who gas their own citizens. A significant portion of the backlash I'm seeing stems from a "who gives a damn if mooslims kill each other" mindset.

I've read numerous accounts that Assad didn't use chemical weapons. The rebels found a weapons cache, didn't know what they had, mishandled the chemicals and hurt themselves. Also, the picture John Kerry showed in his press conference was taken 10 years ago.......in Iraq. There's a reason Russia, Iran, and every other country wants us to stay out of it.

 

[Ksmirk]

I call BULL elephant dung on the whole thing! I may be a cold hearted person but until someone tries anything against the US butt the "F" out of it and like Sarah said let allah sort it out.

From what I have seen from the ass hat in charge is that he's gonna do his best to cover his ass! I do not believe for a minute Assad had anything to do with chemical weapons! if you think different prove it! only thing I can see is he is trying to cover up the fact the rockets that delivered the gas has "Property of the US" painted on the side. Check out what the rest of the world is saying about this and while Assad is a mean SOB they are blaming the rebels or ass hats half brothers team the MB

There is one of two choices to be made, stay out and let the Muslims fight like they have for the last gazillion years or wipe out the whole place EVERYONE over there and start over, I just don't see any other choices. A few missiles across the bow is an act of war as they are doing nothing to us other than trying to get us involved and if they do I'm afraid all hell is going to break loose! hate to say it but I have more respect for Putin than the ass hat that lives in the most expensive public housing in America. Later,

Kirk

 

[Scott Hearn]

Obama said the red line thing. Someone crossed it. Then Obama did an about face. Last week Obama said he could legally do it without congress. Then did an about face.
Last week Boehner said that Obama needed congress and that to get it, he had to show a strategic objective and what the U.S. interest is, had to show a military plan that would achieve it, and had to show how he was going to pay for it. Today he comes out of a meeting and does an about face. He's now on board.

They are all completely, utterly and certifiably insane!

 

[scubor2]

Both sides are probably trying to figure out how many votes they can get from the Syrian refuges they allow to come into the U.S.

 

[scubor2]

If Obama makes a freak guess he would be a shoe in for the next dancing with the stars or an Opra show. Michele would dig that elephant dung.

 

[dennishoddy]

The picture of UN inspectors walking into the chemical weapons stash put up by the "rebels" (aka Al Qaeda) wearing only dust masks was such a stupid made for TV moment that really made me laugh out loud.

Seriously, this is our evidence?

So, when we send in tomahawks that will hit a few airfields or "suspected WMD" sites (that are empty) we can pat ourselves on the back? Mission complete?

Anybody remember the tomahawk strike on Bagdad that was aimed at a WMD site? There was even video of the tomahawk coming in just before it hit the building.

In the time the idiots we have in office determined it was a go, they moved every thing out and re-labeled equipment moved in as "baby formula". Of course it was written in English for the "news" camera's in the middle of Iraq???

The baffoon we currently have in office, drew a line in the sand, and discovered the American Public is not on his side. The rest of the world watched him blink, and now our credibility as a super power is in jeopardy.

In order to save face, he has resorted to putting congress on the spot, even though two weeks ago he said he didn't need congress's approval. ( according to the constitution, he does) Bush went to congress before Iraq and Afghanistan.


Putin of Russia has told us to stand down or prepare for consequences. Putin doesn't blink.

Iran is committed to wiping Israel off the map, and has threatened to destroy Israel if we attack Syria.

WTF is the villiage idiot in office thinking?


The Syrians have already made ready for our attack. Photo ops of children dying in our mis-guided strikes have already been filmed. The propaganda war will start at the launch to prove to the world we made another mistake.

He has pressured some members of congress to go along today. I don't know how, but I for one has been keeping the phones busy calling my legislators.

There is not enough time for emails, etc. Use the dammed phones to convince our congress that we have no interest in being the Air Force wing of Al Qaeda.

Its not a civil war like the media/administration want you to believe. Its an attempt for an overthrow by Radical Moooslims of the current regime, and if anybody thinks its going to get any better, look back at the Arab Spring movement in Egypt.

 

[scubor2]

When dealing with the middle east it's a choice of shooting our selves in the right ear or left ear.

 

[dennishoddy]

Yep. Is a no win no matter what we do. We can support radical muslim terrorists fighting under the name of rebels in a civil war or support a dictator that has actually been a stable presence in a war torn middle east.

Mubarik comes to mind.

 

[Scott Hearn]

So, when we send in tomahawks that will hit a few airfields or "suspected WMD" sites (that are empty) we can pat ourselves on the back? Mission complete?

Yes that's exactly what will happen and right after they sing kumbaya, Assad will appear from the smoke and dust and the world will know that we are weak stomached, and don't fight wars any more.


The buffoons we currently have in office, drew a line in the sand, and discovered the American Public is not on his side. The rest of the world watched him blink, and now our credibility as a super power is in jeopardy gone.

FIFY

Putin doesn't blink and Obama is his cat lady.



WTF is the villiage idiot in office thinking?

Hey he went to Harvard, what else would we expect? First there was Mubarak, then it was Gaddafi, now it's Assad. Maybe the 3rd time's a charm?

See above. :gaming:

 

[Josh Beauchamp]

Normally I am off the flatten the country and let God sort it out mindset. However, in this situation we need to step back from this one. The Russians have given us a very serious back off and are currently moving war ships into the Med. The Israelis are unsure about a strike. The Chinese and Iranians have told us to leave it alone and the Brits, one of our biggesy allies for the past 12 years in Afghanistan, Iraq, and even Libya have said we are on our own. If we hit Syria there is the potential to kick over a hornets nest that will make Afghanistan and Iraq look like a pillow fight.