Sticky about Shipping and FTF Transfers

[HHB Guns]

Well after seeing yet another person on here who was unaware of the laws and the fact I get calls all day long on the proper procedures on buying from an individual I think it might be a good idea to to make a sticky somewhere on the forum to help educate people on the laws and regulations. Please forgive me if we already have this somewhere but I couldn't find it. I was real unsure of where to post this so please put it where you see fit Mods.

Shipping across state lines only allowed to a FFL Dealer:

Long Guns...Anybody can ship them via UPS & Fedex Ground as long as the receiving FFL Dealer accepts from a non-dealer. Keep in mind that most will not. I will but require a copy of your DL included with the package.

Handguns....Anybody can ship them via UPS & Fedex OVERNIGHT as long as the receiving FFL Dealer accepts from a non-dealer. Keep in mind that most will not. I will but require a copy of your DL included with the package. This is both companies policy and from what I have been told by ATF is not law. Keep in mind that if you buy insurance on the package and send it any other way besides overnight and a claim has to be put in it will get DENIED and no pay out will be received for not following policy.
USPS and Handguns...YOU CANT SHIP THIS WAY AT ALL. Only dealers can ship this way and you can bet that I have had my fair share of people who lied to the postal worker and shipped it anyway and had the gun never show up to me because it got scanned and confiscated. Just ask Fordnut about this. Somebody sent him one that never showed up to me.

Now of course there are exceptions to some of these rules that I am sure some of you will point out like if you are going hunting in another state you can ship your own gun to yourself. There is also a few more but it is very rarely they will apply.

Note on Machine Guns and UPS Do not ship any machine gun via UPS. Believe it or not they actually have a policy that they do not pay out insurance on claims if it involves a machine gun. Fedex is the only way to go on this. This would come into play if you currently have one needing to be sent out for repair.

FTF Private sales...This is real easy....If they are a resident of YOUR state you can do a FTF. If not, you CAN'T. People in bordering states like NC and GA try all the time to do this and you can be rest assured that I have had discussions with ATF and SLED and they constantly do undercover buys near the borders all the time busting people for this. If you find a good deal in GA or NC you will have to have it sent to a dealer. Sorry but its the law. No paperwork is required in SC which is what most people call to ask me daily. You can meet, exchange and go home in all of 5 min without any paperwork.

Now please chime in with anything I have forgotten. I wrote this quickly in between customers.

 

[Frost]

Henry this is a great idea
I think it belongs in the Library.
When you are satisfied you covered all you wanted to cover l I will move it to the library and sticky it.

Thanks

 

[mcdaniel]

Thanks, Its nice to have something to refer someone to when you are trying to help.

 

[John Canuck]

In Virginia, the law for a FTF is that you must not have knowledge that the person you are selling to is prohibited. Is there any similar requirement in SC?

 

[Schultz]

Great info I'm going to move this to the Firearms For Sale or Trade forum. It will be a great help, Thanks Henry.

 

[Nagao]

One exception for individuals is the C&R license that lets you receive anything classified as a Curio and Relic firearm at your home address.

 

[mark_b]

Hi Henry

i have a question that maybe you can answer. You gave a great explanation of the rules for shipping firearms across state lines. Are the rules the same for shipping firearms within the state you live in? For example, can someone in the Upstate sell and ship me a firearm within the state of SC?

Thanks for the advice, I am trying to save some money so I can run a few purchases through you.

Mark

 

[carsontech]

You wouldn't believe how many emails and PMs I get from people wanting to meet me from NC when I post my guns for sale. I post on almost every forum locted within SC, and I also post on Armslist. I always say I will only do a FTF within SC. Some even tell me they will pay more for me to meet them in NC!

Most of the time, I never get a reply back after I tell the person it's illegal to sale handguns out of state without getting an FFL involved from the state of residence the purchaser is from.

I think the ATF and other Feds are sending messages out pretending to be from another state, claiming they want to purchase handguns guns face to face. That is entrapment, and unfortunately, the ATF and Feds can get away with it. Look at what the ATF and Feds have got away with so far... Ruby Ridge, Waco, the Oklahoma City bombing(indirectly), and the latest Gun Walking scandal, just to name a few.

So, read what the OP posted in this thread. Make sure you know the laws put in place by the Feds and the State, however stupid they may be, before buying or selling any guns.

 

[gators096]

Here is one easy way to ship out of state. Find yourself a great ffl holder like Henry, take it to him and he takes care of the rest. I've used him many times to ship out many firearms that i have sold on gunbroker. No worries, they get there on time every time and that takes the question out of shipping out of state. To me it's worth paying a little more to ship it out to make sure it is not only done right but legal. THANKS Henry for this and for posting this information.

Tim

 

[HHB Guns]

Hi Henry

i have a question that maybe you can answer. You gave a great explanation of the rules for shipping firearms across state lines. Are the rules the same for shipping firearms within the state you live in? For example, can someone in the Upstate sell and ship me a firearm within the state of SC?

Thanks for the advice, I am trying to save some money so I can run a few purchases through you.

Mark

Yes. It is very easy for instate purchases. I will find the statute tomorrow but according to my inspector the law says you can ship directly to another individual instate to instate. Just keep inmind it has to go UPS or Fedex overnight. More to follow tomorrow.

 

[lafayette gregory]

Hi Henry

i have a question that maybe you can answer. You gave a great explanation of the rules for shipping firearms across state lines. Are the rules the same for shipping firearms within the state you live in? For example, can someone in the Upstate sell and ship me a firearm within the state of SC?

Thanks for the advice, I am trying to save some money so I can run a few purchases through you.

Mark

Yes. It is very easy for instate purchases. I will find the statute tomorrow but according to my inspector the law says you can ship directly to another individual instate to instate. Just keep inmind it has to go UPS or Fedex overnight. More to follow tomorrow.

This is true, but applies to handguns. long guns can be shipped via USPS.

 

[Tigerstripe]

dont pack it up first.

they have to see the chamber to know that there is no ammo or that it could "go off".

when the second stepson got back from Iraq i bought 2 Armalite AR-10 carbines.

i kept one and gave him one. when he first got back he was to be in cali for a while and he absolutly had to have it

there and not wait a few months till he came to PA as a recruiter. the post office sent it and he got it no problem.

he was living on base at the time but that didnt seem to matter.

mine has a happy home with me.

 

[lafayette gregory]

dont pack it up first.

they have to see the chamber to know that there is no ammo or that it could "go off".

when the second stepson got back from Iraq i bought 2 Armalite AR-10 carbines.

i kept one and gave him one. when he first got back he was to be in cali for a while and he absolutly had to have it

there and not wait a few months till he came to PA as a recruiter. the post office sent it and he got it no problem.

he was living on base at the time but that didnt seem to matter.

mine has a happy home with me.

The bit about the post office employee viewing thr item is old regs. The newer regs only requires you answer the questions they ask - Such as "anything potentionally harmful". That does not mean that all clerks know the regs. The regs now state you are not to label of disclose it is a firearm in the box. All this info is on the USPS site.

 

[Tigerstripe]

yeah, where i went they didnt know. they had to call this person and that person.

 

[SuperChuck]

hate to ask a nit-picky one - scenarios are never easy to explain... lol.

Aren't dealers allowed to sell long guns, to out-of-state residents? If so, could a long gun transfer person to person, be possible through a local dealer... ?

Basically an "assisted or FFL'd" FTF transfer?

SC

 

[lafayette gregory]

hate to ask a nit-picky one - scenarios are never easy to explain... lol.

Aren't dealers allowed to sell long guns, to out-of-state residents? If so, could a long gun transfer person to person, be possible through a local dealer... ?

Basically an "assisted or FFL'd" FTF transfer?

SC

You do not need a FFL for a FTF in state for a longgun.
You do not need a FFL for a FTF for a bordering state for a longgun.
Yes- Dealers can sell a long gun to an out of state resident if it does not violate any state laws.

 

[Tigerstripe]

Gregg,

can you go to the big gun show in charlotte from SC and bring home a hand gun purchased there?

i had no idea a face to face sell or buy had anything to do with where you are standing.

ive only sold one gun, (to an SC resident by the way) and now i wish i had kept it.

 

[lafayette gregory]

Gregg,

can you go to the big gun show in charlotte from SC and bring home a hand gun purchased there?

i had no idea a face to face sell or buy had anything to do with where you are standing.

ive only sold one gun, (to an SC resident by the way) and now i wish i had kept it.

No. You have to go through a FFL for a pistol.
In fact, in NC you must have a pistol purchase permit to buy a pistol. SC residents cannot get these permits.
You could have it transfered to a FFl in SC for pickup.

 

[SuperChuck]

This is whats getting me... looks like its based on purchasers state mostly....

Q: To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?
A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]
Q: From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?
A person may only acquire a firearm within the person?s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee?s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]
Q: May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-State source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the purchaser?s own State?
A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser?s State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and 922(b)(3)]

NC State long gun Statute....

14-409.10. Purchase of rifles and shotguns
out of State It shall be lawful for citizens of this
State to purchase rifles and shotguns and ammunition
therefor in states contiguous to this
State.

putting 2 and 2 together, I cannot sell FTF a long gun to an out of state resident - that is expressly forbidden in the national ATF rules...

but I could have it sold to that person locally in SC through an FFL... or shipped to that person's state FFL....

SC

 

[lafayette gregory]

This is whats getting me... looks like its based on purchasers state mostly....

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]
Q: From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?
A person may only acquire a firearm within the person?s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee?s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

putting 2 and 2 together, I cannot sell FTF a long gun to an out of state resident - that is expressly forbidden in the national ATF rules...

but I could have it sold to that person locally in SC through an FFL... or shipped to that person's state FFL....

SC[/quote]


[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]
Q: From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?
A person may only acquire a firearm within the person?s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a "rifle or shotgun", in person, at a licensee?s premises "in any State", provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

Here the "exception" clearly states that longguns or shotgun may be purchased. As stated this does not apply to pistols. Only to rifles and shotguns.
You must take the whole of the regualtion and not simply stop after the first sentence.
If you disagree with me, call the ATF and they will explaine it to you.