Speed vs. Accuracy?

[Dieseltech09]

So being a new shooter to the kind of shooting that the Heartland match is I have a question well maybe more of an observation. It seems that most shooters were going for speed more than accuracy. From the score sheet I see than many shooters penalty times were close to or greater than the time they ran the course in. I understand that this type of shooting speed is very important, but if you can’t shoot a clean round shouldn’t you be worrying more on shot placement than how fast you can send your shots down range? And once you have your shot placement down then work on speed? Maybe I’m wrong and I’m trying to bring to much of Bullseye Pistol over but to me more shots on target at a slightly slower speed is better than sending lead as fast as you can and only half of your shots hitting where they should and getting penalized for the missed shots. What are your thoughts on this?

 

[TroyF]

I can think of very few instances where incurring penalties is a good strategy. As far as speed vs points....it depends. Sometimes it is beneficial to drop some points for the sake of speed. I came over from PPC and struggled to get my speed up. Then I got into a rut of pushing my speed to the point where I was dropping too many points. We are all in search of that happy balance. I'd say the most important thing is just shootat your comfortable speed during matches (while putting a premium on the front sight) and let your speed develop during practice. And by speed I am refering to how quickly you can come into and leave targets. That's where the real gains in speed are made, not so much so in the trigger finger. Just my thoughts, I could be totally wrong.

 

[jtischauser]

At the Heartland match accuracy is king ding-a-ling. In USPSA there are instances where poor hits are satisfactory in trade for speed but it is rare. Shoot for zero points down at Hearltand for sure.

 

[DanielC25]

If you look at some of the better shooters they have both speed and accuracy. Take Jesse for example he shot the match in like 40 some odd seconds and only had 8 seconds in penalty's. that means he only added what 20% of points for failures. and he is pretty consistent and thats how you get your decent shooters(I say decent because he is better then me and it makes me feel better ). Now like you said take the other shooters who add 50-75% of their points by missing. I would say start slow. Then as you get more comfortable, speed it up and ultimately you will only be adding 10-20% of points to your score. One of the training methods I like to do is take a small 6x6 target out to 10 yards. I start by shooting it as fast as I can keep rounds on target and increase my speed as I get better. I assume that if I can hit a 6x6 square that all my rounds will be within the A or C zone. I think the A zone is 4x8 inches, so even in ipsc matches you will be fine. Most of heartlands matches are between 5 and 15 yards. so if you practice at 10 yards and slowly push your target out as you speed up your firing then you will improve your score tremendously.

I know you don't like me but just my 2 cents.

 

[jspeligene]

I'm really new at this but I have to think you're right. You shot well last night...your total penalty time was among the best.
While I'm on here, I want to plant a seed for the June AP1 class at TDSA. Anybody else thinking about going?

 

[jtischauser]

Well said Daniel. I agree with every thing but the part about me being decent. I am anything but decent

I am going to move this over to the match talk thread.

 

[benjamin-benjamin]

trust me if it was just about speed i would be at or near the top.. i can miss faster than just about anyone

 

[Dieseltech09]

Thanks for all the input guys. Im still trying to figure this thing out. Im not trying to come out and be a top shooter within a year. Im going to keep my focus on accuracy and try to increase my speed as I go. I dont want get to the point where Im dropping points for the sake of time. After last night I can see several places where I can trim some time with practice.

I know you don't like me but just my 2 cents.

lol Daniel I dont even know you and last night was the first time I have ever seen you so Im not passing judgement on anyone.

 

[Chambers]

The best shoot as fast as they can see their sights.

Call your shots and focus on doing things efficiently rather than quickly, and you will improve.

 

[imacgyver]

For me it's navigating the stage and movement. Right now I just want to focus on As and 0 penalties - speed should come naturally after more matches for me

 

[DutchWrangler]

Since I've only competed in and am new to Steel Challenge I'm working on accuracy first. Target acquisition with the front sight (I shoot iron sights) is the challenge. I feel that my accuracy is improving a little with each time I shoot. Hopefully my speed will too as picking up the targets becomes easier. I honestly know that I suck at the game, but aside from that, the reason I compete is for the fun and comaraderie.

 

[jtischauser]

Since I've only competed in and am new to Steel Challenge I'm working on accuracy first. Target acquisition with the front sight (I shoot iron sights) is the challenge. I feel that my accuracy is improving a little with each time I shoot. Hopefully my speed will too as picking up the targets becomes easier. I honestly know that I suck at the game, but aside from that, the reason I compete is for the fun and comaraderie.

With Steel Challenge or any steel target for that matter accuracy is ALL that matters. You can't move in until you here the ding so take it slow and get the hits.

 

[DanielC25]

I say slow is smooth.... Plus if you shoot like Jesse you only get to shoot for 50 seconds in a match..... I say get more for your money and shoot for longer periods of time.... I don't know just a thought!! LOL

 

[DutchWrangler]

With Steel Challenge or any steel target for that matter accuracy is ALL that matters. You can't move in until you here the ding so take it slow and get the hits.

One of the drawbacks when shooting SC with rimfire is that sometimes the ding isn't very audible, especially on the plates furthest out. I've allowed my peripheral vision to work on picking up the round kicking dust in the bank behind the target for a miss while simultaneously keeping my front sight on target and my ears tuned for the ding. Not sure if this is a good idea or if it slows me down. Guess that's part of the learning curve I'm going through.

 

[jtischauser]

I misspoke! You shouldn't be watching for the hits or waiting for the ring of the bullet hitting the steel. You should be seeing what you need to see A's far A's a sight picture is concerned then breaking the shot all while maintaing a visual awareness of the sights and where they were exactly A's the shot broke. If you saw the sights in the target A's the shot broke there is no reason the look for anything else or listen for the bullet to hit steel.

 

[Jefpainthorse]

So being a new shooter to the kind of shooting that the Heartland match is I have a question well maybe more of an observation. It seems that most shooters were going for speed more than accuracy. From the score sheet I see than many shooters penalty times were close to or greater than the time they ran the course in. I understand that this type of shooting speed is very important, but if you can’t shoot a clean round shouldn’t you be worrying more on shot placement than how fast you can send your shots down range? And once you have your shot placement down then work on speed? Maybe I’m wrong and I’m trying to bring to much of Bullseye Pistol over but to me more shots on target at a slightly slower speed is better than sending lead as fast as you can and only half of your shots hitting where they should and getting penalized for the missed shots. What are your thoughts on this?

Heartland is billed as a "carry gun" match and the scoring system in place favors "vital hits". David E gives a pretty big A zone as a result. The scoring mimics the potential results of shooting a body in center mass... So -yes, accuracy- Combat Accuracy is rewarded and misses and wounding shots hurt the score.

In USPSA targets are scored ABCD and miss. You see a bigger trade off time vs accuracy. If your running fast enough you can make up a C or D hit. Obviously, fast A's are worth more.

The trick is to find a pace that you can get a good sight picture... start running faster than you can aim (even "flash sight picture or point shooting on close targets) and those pulled shots can eat some ugly penalty time.

 

[DutchWrangler]

I misspoke! You shouldn't be watching for the hits or waiting for the ring of the bullet hitting the steel. You should be seeing what you need to see A's far A's a sight picture is concerned then breaking the shot all while maintaing a visual awareness of the sights and where they were exactly A's the shot broke. If you saw the sights in the target A's the shot broke there is no reason the look for anything else or listen for the bullet to hit steel.

I think I'm doing this most of the time but because the .22LR doesn't make much noise it's difficult to know if I registered a hit. When that happens my focus comes off the front sight and I lose my rhythm which I have to recover which is a time waster. Some of this depends on the stage. The furthers plate(s) on Speed Option, Five to Go, Outer Limits & Showdown just don't make much noise when hit with a .22.

Thnx for the advice, I'll try to work on just concentrating on the front sight on those furthest targets. A miss with it's 3 second penalty might be quicker than trying to reacquire my sight picture.

 

[Jefpainthorse]

I think I'm doing this most of the time but because the .22LR doesn't make much noise it's difficult to know if I registered a hit. When that happens my focus comes off the front sight and I lose my rhythm which I have to recover which is a time waster. Some of this depends on the stage. The furthers plate(s) on Speed Option, Five to Go, Outer Limits & Showdown just don't make much noise when hit with a .22.

Thnx for the advice, I'll try to work on just concentrating on the front sight on those furthest targets. A miss with it's 3 second penalty might be quicker than trying to reacquire my sight picture.

DW... I got in a bad habit of "checking targets". When you hunt, you get reactive feedback... shooting ballons or reactive targets you get instant feedback. But for a while I was punching paper for different reasons I got in a bad habit of looking for the hit.

In the games.. you have to learn to trust what you do and move on. If you notice a miss...you deal with it. It gets faster with practice.

 

[KurtM]

Hate to be "that guy" but movement, while important will not make up for SLOW splits. Say in a match you shoot 100 rounds and you shoot splits .1 faster than the next guy you have gained 10 seconds in over all time. If you move well and there are 8 stages you will only gain about 5-6 seconds. With that all said, don't miss but don't be "inside too much" a SLOW A is nothing to to two fast Cs! Now I didn't say do a bunch of missing, but you need to get the trigger speed up!

 

[Burk Cornelius]

We basically have two threads going about the same topic so I will just add: Click Here for my contribution to the topic (Like anyone cares)