So you guys like WST?

technetium-99m · Oct 18, 2010

So after reading about all of Robbie's problems with Solo1000 I've started to get apprehensive about using it. Even though at Area 4 I went 171 PF just like at home in 30 degree warmer weather.

In feeling out a possible replacement powder I'm starting to look at other options. I think I'm going to go N320 but WST intrigues me, it's definitely cheaper and probably more readily available. Does it do really well with lead bullets? Does it meter well? What do you like about it?

Anyone got a load to make a 165gr JHP go 1000 fps for major?

Spiff · Oct 18, 2010

Haven't used it, but here's a recent thread from Enos:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=115205

Looks like WST is more temp sensitive than Solo, by a lot.

I'm trying to do a bunch of research before starting to load .40 major, I'd appreciate anyone else's input too!

Scott Hearn · Oct 18, 2010

I like it. After I shoot this jug I will have shot about 8lbs of it. 3.5 grains at a time for the most part.

It meters great. But I don't know about going major in .40 with that light of a bullet.
I know you will have no issues with 180's or 200's. It's a fast powder and from what I've
read it's not good to "run it hard". I need to do more work with the chrono but in 9mm
(I know, a different animal but still a high pressure round) I start getting larger ES and SD
not long after going past minor PF and it had the appearance that they were getting erratic
on a "faster curve" the hotter I went. It's perfectly fine for 135 PF in 9mm with 147's but I
don't think I'd try to go much past that and I load for about 133.

Also I've heard the raving about N320 being soft shooting. I have some but have only loaded it in
.38 Special. I'm gonna try some in 9mm to compare to WST but the .38's seem pretty snappy in my
snubnose revos and a 4" Model 66. Burns really really clean but I'm not sure it's much cleaner than WST.
Mitch showed me his gun after two matches (I think, possibly three) running WST and some plated bullets.
It was awfully clean for having 300+ on it. There are no issues with it being a dirty powder, I promise.

Edit to add:
As far as inverse temp sensitivity, it is. But I've not read of one instance over on Enos where someone
got bumped to minor or sent home. I will say that I propably would have been bumped to minor once had they
chrono'd me at USSA in a club match. It got up to about 105 that day and my range bag was like an oven sitting
in the sun all day. The rounds were almost to hot to hold in your hand. My 1911 in .45 malf'd 5 or 6 times
that day and I know it was because it was the rounds were down on power. I caused me to classify in D class too
because all the stages were classifiers that day. That's about the only scenario you'll have any problems.
As to the cold, you'll only have a problem if you are already on the line at the absolute max where you
shouldn't be anyway. I've chron'd my 9mm loads from 25 degrees to 95 (with ammo and bag in shade) and not
been able to discern any real difference.

Glocktogo · Oct 18, 2010

I don't know about .40 loads, but my attempts with WST in 9mm 147gr loads did not yield acceptable results. The ES and SD was all over the place using a wide range of charge weights.

Bruno2 · Oct 19, 2010

All single base powders burn very clean.However, they are temperature sensitive for the most part. These powders are fine if you plan on shooting a batch very shortly after loading them.

On the other hand you have the double based powders. Just about everything that Alliant makes is a double base. You wont get the extremely clean burn of the singles , but , you dont have to worry about pressure spikes in different temperatures. I havent looked in a while , but , Hogdgon was making an "extreme" line of powders . The "extreme" products would give more consistent pressures in varying temps. I think they only had them in rifle powders though. Hogdgon may have started developing the extremes for pistols.

Vihtavuori and Ramshot powders are temp tolerant. I have heard excellent things about their TAC powder for .223.

Bruno2 · Oct 19, 2010

Here is something else to consider when loading pistol rounds. A slower powder will usually take more gr weight to achieve the same velocities as the faster powders. However, The slower powders arent as effecient , but , fill more of the case volume. The more volume of the case that is filled will give off a cleaner burn than the faster powders filling less of the case.

Food for thought.

technetium-99m · Oct 19, 2010

I just ran across that enos thread as well.

The more reading I do, if I switch I'm going to move over to N320 or titegroup, I've already got a powder I'm comfortable with (been through 2 8lb jugs so far of Solo1000 so far) and I can make major with bullets ranging from 165-200gr.

After I make it through the pile of 180's I have I'm switching to the 165's. A buddy's major 165 load feels fantastic, the gun works very fast.

technetium-99m · Oct 19, 2010

Scott Hearn said:
But I've not read of one instance over on Enos where someone
got bumped to minor or sent home.

Robbie sub-minored with his father a few months ago with Solo. I think he finally found he needed around 4gr to get minor with a 147 and his dad dumped the powder entirely. I guess each jug just requires a lot of work up for me, whereas a friends varying lots of titegroup just don't seem to matter. I understand that the powder is manufactured by numerous ever changing facilities, but a 20% + variance in charge weight between lots just seems nuts to me. I guess the moral of the story is I need to stay on top of chronographing in varying conditions to make sure I'm hovering around 175 where I like to be.

technetium-99m · Oct 19, 2010

Bruno2 said:
I have heard excellent things about their TAC powder for .223.

As far as I'm concerned TAC is the greatest 223 powder yet conceived by man, from heavies to 55's it just works.

Bruno2 · Oct 19, 2010

I have never heard anybody bad mouth TAC. Seems to be a well designed propellant.

I load .223 with Win 748. It doesnt seem to spike in the weather conditions and load up to the max just about always. I have used varget some, but , when loading mil cases I cant seem to get all the powder in the cases for max charges. I load some BLC-2 . Supposedly now that Hogdgon owns Win and IMR some of their powders are identical. The 748 and BLC-2 are supposed to be the same powder. I load H335 sometimes. It is very temper mental with temperatures. One of the guys that taught me to reload didnt want me using H335 at first due to its pressure spikes with temp variations.

Rockon71385 · Oct 19, 2010

GT

Most of the craziness with Solo1000 seems to be surrounding loading 9mm with it. From what I've read, guys loading .40 and .45 with it aren't having the same problems. Maybe it evens out with greater charge weights or greater case volume?

penman53 · Oct 19, 2010

I shoot WST (4.2 grains) for my 45 acp wad gun for Bullseye. It works fine for both the short line and the long line.

Mark, Edmond Ok

technetium-99m · Oct 20, 2010

Rockon71385 said:
GT

Most of the craziness with Solo1000 seems to be surrounding loading 9mm with it. From what I've read, guys loading .40 and .45 with it aren't having the same problems. Maybe it evens out with greater charge weights or greater case volume?

I hadn't realized that actually, I guess I didn't make the connection.

mike cyrwus · Oct 20, 2010

Rockon71385 said:
GT

Most of the craziness with Solo1000 seems to be surrounding loading 9mm with it. From what I've read, guys loading .40 and .45 with it aren't having the same problems. Maybe it evens out with greater charge weights or greater case volume?

no, my new batch of s1000 is a pia in 40.

technetium-99m · Oct 21, 2010

mike cyrwus said:
no, my new batch of s1000 is a pia in 40.

What are you liking with lead bullets in 40?

Rockon71385 · Oct 22, 2010

mike cyrwus said:
no, my new batch of s1000 is a pia in 40.

Well damn. I wonder if they're having QC issues or something. Seems like last year everybody and their dog was trying to convince me to switch to solo.

irons_shooter · Nov 4, 2010

Wst is fine. Just as good all around as 320 but cheaper and easier to find. I load 168pf here and have never gone minor anywhere, at any altitude at any temperature. Now, I store my powder inside and after I load, I store my rounds inside, but that's what you are supposed to do..

Sorry, that is in .40 with 5.1 grains under a zero 180 bullet. 4.7 with a 180 bbi.

Scott Hearn · Nov 4, 2010

irons_shooter said:
Wst is fine. Just as good all around as 320 but cheaper and easier to find. I load 168pf here and have never gone minor anywhere, at any altitude at any temperature. Now, I store my powder inside and after I load, I store my rounds inside, but that's what you are supposed to do..

Sorry, that is in .40 with 5.1 grains under a zero 180 bullet. 4.7 with a 180 bbi.

What OAL are you running with these loads?

1911pete1 · Nov 11, 2010

I've had great results in consistency with my universal in 9mm, only with the 125 Harrington 125's. Haven't tried the 147's yet. Need to chronology the loads however to find out what pf I'm actually making.