Should Teachers Carry Guns On Campus?

KillShot

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Joined
Nov 30, 2010
Messages
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Location
Tulsa, Ok
Some gun activists are pushing for teachers and school administrators to carry guns on school campuses. They took their opinions before school board members in Arlington on Thursday night.
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Source - Dallas/Ft. Worth - CBS Local


 
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What is properly trained? Who decides if they are properly trained? Why should a teacher's right to defend themselves, and the children they are responsible for, be restricted by a gun-free zone? Do you make the same argument for the general population?
 
We actually have the same argument for the general population. To legally carry you have to take a class. Thats all that I want is to atleast know these teachers know how to properly use a gun. Would you want your 10 year old with a teacher that has never been trained just went to academy and bought a gun?
 
The "training" received for a concealed carry license permit in the State of Oklahoma is a ****ing joke. I learned more from watching Best Defense on the Outdoor channel then I did in the "training" or "class" for my CCL. Reading the SDA handbook, passing around an empty revolver, then shooting 50 rounds of .22 LR in a paper target 5 yards away does absolutely nothing to TRAIN teachers, or the general population, how to effectively defend themselves or their loved ones. Granted, I guess it IS better than nothing. But if we expect the teachers to be a first line of defense in an active shooter scenario on school campuses across America, then by God TRAIN them how to identify a threat and put it down.

Just having the permit is not enough. PROPER training and constant situational awareness is the key IMO. Or just ban and destroy all the guns in the world.
 
But I do think everyone, teachers and students alike, have the right to defend themselves if they have a CCL per the SDA in the State of Oklahoma no matter where they are.
 
I was disappointed with the CC class I attended, only in that I felt that not enough information and training was given. Seems like the class was developed for one purpose only, and that was for money. I have been around guns my entire life, and to visually see how some were handling their weapons, and shooting, was just plain scary. Personally, I would have not approved two in the class I had taken. Not knowning how to load your weapon and not hitting your target should be an immediate no pass. Eight hours is not enough time.

My wife is a teacher, and knowing that she would be able to protect herself and others would make me feel a hell of a lot better. There is one entry and exit point in her room. They would all be sitting ducks.
 
Some of the teachers I know aren't safe to carry a sharpened pencil. That being said, I feel that if additional training and certification were required then sure why not.

Our local PD uses our schools for scenario training. Sign up a few willing teachers and other staff (like computer techs ;) ) and let them train too.

It would take the school resource officer too long to respond to most situations. Especially if it were to take place at class change. Hell, by the time they realized there was a problem it would most likely be over. For sure too late.
 
Exactly. There's no way to really set guidelines on how much or what should be taught to prepare TEACHERS for an active shooter scenario on a school campus. Only so much can prepare a person like a teacher to defend themselves, but in the moment, in the heat of battle, basic survival instincts will take over and your mind and body will do what's necessary to survive. Hopefully. Hopefully you don't cower and piss your pants to become an easier target for the threat. Regular practice and preparation, with the firearm and mentally are essential for effective defense. Talking about it and having to do it are kinda different.
 
Everyone who has a concealed weapons permit should be allowed to carry a firearm anywhere they go in Oklahoma. That complies with Article 2, Section 26 of the Oklahoma Constitution and allows a minimum and relatively unobtrusive level of investigation and training.

Every SDA class in Oklahoma will have some folks who have never and WILL NEVER carry a gun. They take the class because their spouse or friend wanted them to, for the gun handling and safety training, or just to learn something about guns.

USSA, TDSA, H&H, myself and several others offer handgun training. It is available to anyone who so desires. I am sure if they open schools for concealed carry many of us will develop classes for teachers who want more training. Some will choose to take the training, others will think the gun is a talisman and they only need to have it with them. I think the majority of the teachers who choose to carry will spend a lot of time thinking about it, learning more, and preparing themselves. I also think very few teachers would ever carry at school.
 
Everyone who has a concealed weapons permit should be allowed to carry a firearm anywhere they go in Oklahoma. That complies with Article 2, Section 26 of the Oklahoma Constitution and allows a minimum and relatively unobtrusive level of investigation and training.

This.

My primary comment has less to do with teachers carrying than it does with the underlying 'training' discussion here. First of all the only training (and I truly used the word loosely) someone showing up to a SDA class should expect to receive is training with regard to the SDA and lawfully carrying a firearm within the boundaries of Oklahoma. I regard the vast majority of the subject matter in a SDA class as 'familiarization' rather than 'training'. I believe that the only reason the firing requirement was added was because of the fact that they are regulating what type of weapon you may carry based on what you use to familiarize in the class. 50 rounds or whatever it was is hardly training and I think that we should try to stop applying that term to the SDA class.

Now before you 'above-and-beyond' SDA instructors get upset with that statement understand that I realize that many of you offer more in your classes than others. My point, simply stated, is that OSBI doesn't require your extra effort and that what they require can hardly be regarded as training in the sense in which we all think of it.

I agree that many SDA Instructors may be teaching their students but there's a difference between being instructed and being trained. I was certainly not 'trained' to drop my wallet and then shoot the bad guy when he goes for it despite being 'instructed' that this was the *cough*cough*Instructor's stated method of dealing with such a scenario.

Remember: Only your opponent and the encounter in which you find yourself will determine whether you are sufficiently trained and sufficiently proficient. How does that saying go? "You will never rise to the level of your training but fall to the level of your proficiency." Or some such thing.
 
I think that considering the environment we're discussing, requiring a special class on secure storage/carry and special concerns in a crowded environment would be prudent. To me, this isn't so much an infringement as it is being responsible in the proper use of defensive sidearms.
 
Everyone who has a concealed weapons permit should be allowed to carry a firearm anywhere they go in Oklahoma. That complies with Article 2, Section 26 of the Oklahoma Constitution and allows a minimum and relatively unobtrusive level of investigation and training.

Every SDA class in Oklahoma will have some folks who have never and WILL NEVER carry a gun. They take the class because their spouse or friend wanted them to, for the gun handling and safety training, or just to learn something about guns.

USSA, TDSA, H&H, myself and several others offer handgun training. It is available to anyone who so desires. I am sure if they open schools for concealed carry many of us will develop classes for teachers who want more training. Some will choose to take the training, others will think the gun is a talisman and they only need to have it with them. I think the majority of the teachers who choose to carry will spend a lot of time thinking about it, learning more, and preparing themselves. I also think very few teachers would ever carry at school.


Valid points. I would love to be able to carry everywhere I go. I work for a school district and can't even have a firearm in my car.

However, I feel that when you start talking about arming teachers or administrators that there needs to be a higher standard. If a teacher is armed in school you create a situation that goes beyond self defense. You would have a person in a position of authority with a gun and that would create more of an armed response situation.

In my mind that creates something more akin to a deputy sheriff or reserve police officer. I think more extensive, more frequent training would be needed. I also feel that it would need to be in conjunction with local authorities. If nothing else, they would need to know more about how the police are going to respond so they don't shoot an officer responding to an incident.

All that being said, I don't see it ever happening.
 
Everyone who has a concealed weapons permit should be allowed to carry a firearm anywhere they go in Oklahoma. That complies with Article 2, Section 26 of the Oklahoma Constitution and allows a minimum and relatively unobtrusive level of investigation and training.

Every SDA class in Oklahoma will have some folks who have never and WILL NEVER carry a gun. They take the class because their spouse or friend wanted them to, for the gun handling and safety training, or just to learn something about guns.

USSA, TDSA, H&H, myself and several others offer handgun training. It is available to anyone who so desires. I am sure if they open schools for concealed carry many of us will develop classes for teachers who want more training. Some will choose to take the training, others will think the gun is a talisman and they only need to have it with them. I think the majority of the teachers who choose to carry will spend a lot of time thinking about it, learning more, and preparing themselves. I also think very few teachers would ever carry at school.
I agree with this.

My initial response was intentionally short in hopes of stimulating such a discussion. I also agree with this:
I think that considering the environment we're discussing, requiring a special class on secure storage/carry and special concerns in a crowded environment would be prudent. To me, this isn't so much an infringement as it is being responsible in the proper use of defensive sidearms

As a teacher who has participated in active shooter drills I can tell you it is a sick feeling to be so helpless. While I'm no expert, I have taken special training, plan to take more classes, and would take the training mentioned above required or not. It was the active shooter drills that awakened me to the necessity of training for anyone who is going to carry. But, because of my job I spend most days (and nights) unable to carry or even carry away from work because I do not live close to the school.
 
As a police chief, if this were to pass I would talk to the school administrators and teachers to set up training for all who are interested.

You may worry about a lot of things an untrained teacher may do but the fact remains that in every instance of an active shooter in a school in the USA no one else (other than the perpetrator) has been killed or injured after being confronted by armed response!
 
Public school teachers are government employees. SCOTUS ruled that even the police (government employees) are not bound to "protect" citizens. To expect teachers to do the same is wishful thinking, especially since most tend to be progressive/socialists who view the 2A as outdated and not relevant to our "kinder, gentler, pussified" nation.

The best way to protect children is to make an example of every criminal that comes into a school with a firearm to commit murder and mayhem. If they are apprehended after the fact find a tall tree and a short rope. This is the only way to deter criminal behavior long term. Our laws are a pathetic joke yet we're drowning in ignorant regulations and laws are nothing more than a PITA for law abiding citizens. No law ever stopped a criminal.
 
I like everyone's comments and discussion in this thread. I keep wanting to hit the quote button and reply with agreed or +1 but I'm going to save time and say I agree with 99% of what has been said.
 
What would be kind of cool is if the schools would get willing teachers CLEET armed security guard licenses, and employ them in the dual roles of teacher and armed security guard. Possible? I know it won't happen in a million years, but...
 
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