Shot Buff in Commander?

[brooksharris]

My primary carry gun is a DW Valor, but I also carry a DW VBOB. All the advice I read says not to use shok buffs in commander sized pistols; but taking care of my weapons is of extreme importance to me so I use the buffs in all my 1911's. I have shot 4 different carry loads: Super Vel, Speer G2, Speer GD, and HST's plus hundreds of 200 gr. H&G sac's with no failures of any kind. I'm wondering if others on the forum have had problems with the buffs in commanders and, if so, what problems did you have and how often does the problem occur?
Of course I realize I can practice with the buff in and then remove it after cleaning prior to reloading with carry ammo.

 

[Mike A]

I tried a Shock buff in my Colt LW Commander 45 acp, to protect it I told my self.
What I saw convinced me to never put that dam piece if plastic into JMBs perfect pistol design.

If my Aluminum frame cracks like the frame cracked on one of my 1918, 1911s then I will buy another frame
from Caspian frames.

I have a Colt 1918 that has a cracked frame, yet over the last 36 years at my Shooting club I have never heard of anyone
having a cracked frame in their 1911. I'm sure it happens however just how often it happens, that's a good question.

 

[brooksharris]

But specifically what caused you to reject them please?

 

[Mike A]

But specifically what caused you to reject them please?

Sure. I put one of the best name brand buffs & just shot it with Hard ball a whole lot.
I did not get solvent or oil on the silicone material & yet I saw it squishing for lack of a better term.

Two chunks started to break off & I saw a split starting from the inside.
I have read & talked with others who had problems with their buffs coming apart.



I learned from the .22 Belly shooters not to clean my .22 because it's protected by the wax from the bullets.
I also learned from the 2700 Bullseye pistol shooters who do not use Buffs in their 1911s, they just say NO.

In my 1911 world it's only logical to use something to enhance the reliability of your 1911.
It just makes no sense to put a possible road block in your road, when it's just not really needed.

 

[CECannonJr]

Those shock-buffs are a gimmick that do nothing to protect a 1911. They only serve to make a failure more likely. That is according to Bill Wilson himself, who probably sells more of them than anybody. But, he stated that he sells them because people buy them. I searched the internet for those comments, but couldn't find it. I explicitly remember reading those statements. That was probably before the sales took off. Wilson supplies them with their 5 inch 1911's now. Of course, that's so you'll buy more.

 

[brooksharris]

I do appreciate the feedback gents. But rarely have I seen such strong opinions on a subject with so little data for support. Having run these in 4 1911's and replacing at around the 500 round mark I've never seen a buff deteriorate or "chewed up". And I can slingshot my slide on all 4 including the VBOB which is commander length.
Bill Wilson certainly qualifies as an expert on running 1911's. If they are so prone to interfering with the operation of the pistol, why would he risk the liability (reputation and vicarious) by selling them...much less installing them on his own pistols?
Reckon I'll keep running them and replacing regularly.
Praying for our Republic,
Brooks

 

[TXPlt]

I have never used them and never had a reason to.

IF there's a good reason to do something I'll do it (things like better sights, longer life springs, better connector, etc.). One more piece that can break that doesn't need to be there. Never had a use for a full length guide rod either (and none of my guns were designed with one as a part of it).

There's alot to be said for understanding and following manufacturers guidance for your particular gun; not that you can't work outside of it but you've gotta know exactly why you're doing what you're doing and why it's applicable to your situation.

So if it floats your boat have at it.

 

[Mike A]

I do appreciate the feedback gents. But rarely have I seen such strong opinions on a subject with so little data for support. Having run these in 4 1911's and replacing at around the 500 round mark I've never seen a buff deteriorate or "chewed up". And I can slingshot my slide on all 4 including the VBOB which is commander length.
Bill Wilson certainly qualifies as an expert on running 1911's. If they are so prone to interfering with the operation of the pistol, why would he risk the liability (reputation and vicarious) by selling them...much less installing them on his own pistols?
Reckon I'll keep running them and replacing regularly.
Praying for our Republic,
Brooks

Hey if you know something John Moses Browning forgot please tell us.
At 70 years old, after a lifetime with Guns I have learned a few things about Machines
that I missed as a life long Master Porsche Mechanic, however I doubt it.

Everybody's got a fix for your machine, eg. 1957 Chevy or your new Ruger 10/22.
Just because it can be customized does not mean it needs it ,or it will work better
than it does the way it was designed & built.

All 9 of my Colt 1911s from 1917 to my 2011 are what you call Stock.
All 9 work perfectly & need no gimmicks to make them work better.

However by all means use, them buy them, make them, just don't expect other
1911 Fanatics to agree with you.

Free will comes with responsibility on your part, to sift the manure from the truth.
Good luck.

 

[Mike Galway]

All you need is a quality spring for the loads you shoot. JMO. Years ago had a Wilson shock buff come apart, jammed gun.

 

[brooksharris]

Thanks Mike. Can you recall approximately how many rounds you had shot at that point. And did you see it fraying or cracking as you continued to shoot it?

 

[apipeguy]

I use shock buffs in my 5" guns and have never had one break up. I do keep my eye on them and change them out when some minor wear shows but long before they would break, normally well in excess of 1,000 rounds. I also use a shock buff in my 4" EDC X9 as the were designed to run with a buff. Changed one out at around 3,500 rounds just because and there was little to no wear at all.

I've never encountered any damage other than depressions in my Wilson shock buffs. Not trying to say that others have not, but it certainly has not been my experience.

 

[brooksharris]

Thank-you sir. My experience mirrors yours except that I change mine out at 500 rounds in my carry Valor. At that point I see the depression you mentioned. I'm going to put a used one in my "shooter" and see how many rounds before I see splits or tears.
My practice loads are 200 gr. H&G's w/ 4.3 gr. TG, so it could be a high number.

 

[13Ghosts]

Have to agree with Mike. Springs must be tuned to the load you're firing as there is no "one spring fits all". And if your firing heavy loads, you can also install an oversized fps (squared edge), I find that makes a big difference in my 45's and 10mm's

 

[Bob Lee]

All you need is a quality spring for the loads you shoot. JMO. Years ago had a Wilson shock buff come apart, jammed gun.

Agreed match the spring to the load you use. I used to use20# springs in my Commanders, and 18.5# in my full size guns. I've long since gone back to standard weight springs. I have used Wolff springs, but I am in the process of changing to BH Springs instead. Just my .02.

 

[TexasTony]

I don't claim to be an expert in regards to the below. It has just been what I have noticed in my years of tinkering with a lot of 1911s, springs, and buffs...

I believe they do serve a reasonable purpose. Probably more so if you have an aluminum framed gun, shoot hotter +P or Super ammo, 10mm with full pot loads, or put a lot of rounds down range on one platform. Some claim a reduction in recoil sharpness, but let's not discuss that here. Let's also keep in mind most people will never shoot more than a 50-round box of ammo a year (which is why Hi-Points and Kel-Tecs still sell LOL).

What you certainly do when adding a buffer is shorten the slide's rearward/forward "runway."
With these add-on buffers the slide's maximum rearward length of travel is reduced, and forward travel is shortened (subsequently your slide has less inertia to strip the next cartridge). If the 1911 was full auto, that buffer would also increase it's rounds per minute. This can also potentially compromise a magazine's ability to push the next round up in time, especially with older mags and cause other potential reliability issues. To help explain this, think of why some people conceptually prefer the slingshot method of reloading over slide stop (not to start that debate).

I believe this issue can be exacerbated with a buffer when you go from a 5-inch barrel to a 4.25, on down the line.

For myself--personally--I would use the buffer at the range and remove it at the end of the session if I planned on carrying it. I know many people have never had a problem/others did, etc. but this is my opinion. You can consider it cheap peace of mind with no fear of it failing you when you need it that way.

I would also change the buffer at 1,000 rounds and add a fresh recoil spring (springs are cheap).

YMMV.

 

[brooksharris]

Re: "Matching springs to the load"...Now that's a challenge as I carry +P's and practice with 200 gr. H&G's behind 4.3 gr. of TG. Surely someone has run tests to document the lifespan limit of shot buffs. Hadn't thought of searching for that until now, so I shall and will report back if I find something fruitful.
Praying for our Republic, Brooks

 

[HooDoo Man]

I have run them in the past. Not really needed. How many modern day cracked frames do you see. I only use them in 1 gun now. The EB KCarry 9mm conversion. Why? Because it came with on installed from EB. Probably due to the higher 9mm velocity on a commander slide. All I can say for sure is change them out as soon as you see wear marks on them. They are cheap. Why mess around.

 

[ratwhacker]

I used them in the past, didn't see any real benefit to them, or any real problems, either, but I changed them out frequently. I still use them in my aluminum alloy pistols "just because it might help". I started out using a Detonics Competition Recoil System, which used a two-spring setup, like Colt does with their current pistols, and a polymer piece sandwiched between two pieces of steel, and it caused me zero grief or problems, and the gun got shot a LOT, so I thought the Shok-Buffs would help a little. Later on, when Colt came out with the Delta Elite, I took that Detonics rig and put it in my Delta, and again had no issues, even though other Deltas got beat to heck (belonged to friends), mine was like brand-new. Go figure.
I don't use them except in my alloy pistols now, though, simply because I'm too lazy to fool with them, and the steel guns don't seem to show any wear, either. I now think it doesn' matter much, either way, like a full-length guide rod. It just doesn't matter.

 

[Mike D]

I tried one in my Wilson, the dam thing wouldn't always cycle correctly, took it out, no more problems, and, no more plastic. I believe, if it was needed, JMB would have installed one. Although, back in his day, it would have probably been a chunk of cork??

 

[Tigerstripe]

i have used them and not used them. mostly when i shot a lot. i havent added any since shooting matches. when they get old they crack.
this gave me a thought to compare these buffers to the bumper on an AR buffer. the amount of spring will probably cause or not cause
deformation.