Shoot / No Shoot: Higher Education

Burk Cornelius

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A couple years ago we started some discussions about hypothetical situations that one might encounter on any given day (search Shoot / No Shoot in this forum). Discussion about possible courses of action and also possible repercussions to those actions. This is just meant to be a mental exercise to make you think before you act. And to also be aware of the WHOLE situation


Scenario:

You are attending an class at your local University. While sitting in your afternoon English Literature class you hear what appears to be gunshots coming from down the hall.

The sound is followed by people screaming and running by your classroom door. You hear more gunshots and now people are running in all directions and you close the door and stay in your classroom. After a few minutes the gunshots cease and it gets quiet.

Suddenly, the door to your classroom opens and an individual in fatigues walks in with an AR-type rifle at low ready.

You are carrying your concealed weapon, against campus policy. What is your response?

Disclaimer: Responses are not legal advice. Only personal opinions and discussions
 

poopgiggle

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Shoot. I've never seen campus "police" with ARs or fatigues, and I feel like it would be obvious if dude was real LE.
 

poopgiggle

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Burk Cornelius said:
They could be non-campus police
That's what I meant by "real LE."

PS I'm aware that some campuses have real-deal police but the place I went to has "security officers."
 

Burk Cornelius

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I am kind of reminded of the story about the shooting at Vaughan Foods in Moore. The off-duty cop went out to his car and retrieved his rifle and returned to kill the bad guy. Not directly related to this scenario, but it does remind us that the guy with the gun MIGHT be the good guy, even if he doesn't look like it on the surface

What if that (Vaughan) guy would have been the one who open our "classroom" door and you shot him?
 

Jeff T.

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Piedmont, OK
Burk Cornelius said:
A couple years ago we started some discussions about hypothetical situations that one might encounter on any given day (search Shoot / No Shoot in this forum). Discussion about possible courses of action and also possible repercussions to those actions. This is just meant to be a mental exercise to make you think before you act. And to also be aware of the WHOLE situation


Scenario:

You are attending an class at your local University. While sitting in your afternoon English Literature class you hear what appears to be gunshots coming from down the hall.

The sound is followed by people screaming and running by your classroom door. You hear more gunshots and now people are running in all directions and you close the door and stay in your classroom. After a few minutes the gunshots cease and it gets quiet.

Suddenly, the door to your classroom opens and an individual in fatigues walks in with an AR-type rifle at low ready.

You are carrying your concealed weapon, against campus policy. What is your response?

Disclaimer: Responses are not legal advice. Only personal opinions and discussions
I would like to think that during this "few minutes" I would have found the fire extinguisher and been standing beside the door when he came in and crushed his skull with it when he stepped in the door, or been standing there with a drawn XDM and put one in the temple of his skull as he entered.
In reality, I probably wouldn't be able to find my face, might less a fire extinguisher.
 

Rick S

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I don't have enough information yet to take action, but he would have about two seconds to identify himself as friend or foe before I Mozambique his ass.
 

LuckyDucky

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1) Get everyone in the room to spread out and take cover as best as possible
2) get some of the stronger looking people to stand low on both sides of the door (if you can't lock it).
3) When door opens, smash and grab the gun.
 

Matt1911

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My gun is drawn if I've locked myself in the classroom at this point. If subject entered and wasn't immediate with "police" or something of the nature, the sights I had on him would be followed with a loud bang, and then me heading to the bathroom to clean my panties.
 

runawaygun762

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Having taught LE active shooter response, there are two things to take into account; police will not always identify themselves verbally as they enter each room since the goal is to neutralize the active shooter, so hoping for a positive ID as a LEO is not always going to work. However (item 2) police are trained to ask "Where's the shooter" if they can't follow the sound of gunfire. Post up near the door for two reasons. One, you have better situational awareness of what's going on outside and may hear approaching police asking for the location and two, if the shooter enters the room you will not be the first thing he sees and he'll have to make a wider swing to get to you, thus giving you more options. Most schools are constructed with cinder block, so being by the near-side wall is no more dangerous than anywhere else since angled rounds won't penetrate.

There's also the plan to break out class windows and cover the class's escape depending on the location of the room, but make sure the weapon is holstered and other students identify you as a classmate before telling the cordon cops you have a gun on you. They'll initially treat all escaping students as possible suspects trying to hide in the crowd and you're going to have to answer for having the gun there.
 

runawaygun762

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Something else to keep in mind when carrying illegally; if you use your gun to stop a murder, rape, or other serious offense from taking place, you may be protected from prosecution by the rule of competing harms, which isn't a legal precedent per se, but a general understanding that by violating one law, you were able to prevent a more serious offense. That will not help you if you are found to have a gun and haven't used it to protect others so in this scenario, if you don't get the opportunity to engage a shooter or if you shoot a responding officer mistakenly, you may be subject to the full extent of prosecution since you won't have public opinion or common sense in prosecution to protect you.
 
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