SC open carry?

HHB Guns said:
I don't know where you got your statistics but if you can and they are open to the public you should research FBI stastics which is a rather large number of officer involved off duty shootings.
Could you please post a link to the statistics you mention please. Than you.
 
Here is the way I look at Open Carry....

It is not if you will open carry or not....You have the right to chose. It was granted by the Constitution...Now, we have lost a lot of those rights...That is the whole problem...


Steve
 
I fully, 100%, back any legal gun owners right to choose to open carry, carry concealed, heck if you want to slap a bow on it and wear it as a headband, more power to you.
However, because you said you couldn't find any incidents of OC people being targeted, I did a little mining and found a few for you.
Wisconsin (currently ONLY has open carry although that's changing next month YAY!):
http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/95999354.html

New Mexico:
http://www.usacarry.com/open-carrier-arrested-after-scuffle/

North Carolina (off duty security officer):
http://www.wbtv.com/story/15255248/shooting-in-east-charlotte


I found reference to a few others but they were quoted in forum posts and the original link either wasn't included or was no longer viable so I left them out.

The vast majority of the incidents that I found were actually oc'ers being targeted by police.

Honestly, at this point in my life for what I do and where I go I'm quite happy with concealed carry, but I'd really like to have it so that I won't get ticketed for brandishing if someone accidentally sees my weapon and I'd like the option for open carry if I so chose.
 
lafayette gregory said:
HHB Guns said:
I don't know where you got your statistics but if you can and they are open to the public you should research FBI stastics which is a rather large number of officer involved off duty shootings.
Could you please post a link to the statistics you mention please. Than you.

As I said earlier I do not think it is open to the public but you are welcome to try and find them. I just dont know. I have them in a power point from when I was a law enforcement instuctor at FLETC. It was a topic for discussion when we had firearms training on how to carry off duty.
 
C_Carson said:
But if open carry were so dangerous, why would the cops have started using it at all? We have 43 states where LACs open carry every day. I've posted 3 links to actual events where a crime was averted; if this scenario of having a bulls eye on your hip is true, surely you can find multiple (but I'll only ask for 3) cases from any of these states where ordinary people were shot by a criminal merely for open carrying.
Well I don't know about shot but how about targeted for having a gun openly displayed.

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/police/rep ... Patton.htm
http://www.fugitive.com/2011/07/29/open ... ideo-here/
http://www.usacarry.com/open-carrier-ar ... r-scuffle/

C_Carson said:
To assume you can understand the mindset of all criminals is ignorant I think.

Umm...respectfully, I'm not the one assuming I know the criminal mindset. So far, the posts I've replied to have said "The criminal will see me and make me a target." Isn't that assuming?
Well I took the following comment to read as such.

C_Carson said:
What I can't support is the belief that open carrying makes you a target. Everything I have learned on the subject contradicts this belief, and I only want the record straight.
Conceal if you are more comfortable, but don't make the decision based on illogical assumptions or fear.
But if that's not, this kinda seems like it to me.

C_Carson said:
Now, I have said, that based on actual experiences from everyday people, (see 3 links provided above; there are more for the asking) and not cops, and not statistics, (which I place no faith in), that most criminals will be deterred. Why? The psychology of the average, garden variety criminal is that of a cowardly predator. A gang banger, a thug, a robber, a thief...they aren't looking to duel at 20 paces with anyone. It is a fact, backed up by numerous studies over decades, predators look for easy prey.
Now don't get me wrong I'm not disagreeing with you completely, I do think it is a deterrent to SOME criminals just not all. Me personally I don't want the enemy to see the cards I'm playing, I want to hit them with speed, SURPRISE, and violence of action, they aren't going to see it coming.

Respectfully.
 
Sorry if any of this comes off as condescending or short. I have had a very long day on a side job performing aircraft maintenance, and it was a $*%# of a job that could have been so $#%#ing simple if we would have spent the time gathering the correct tools and planning out the job instead of diving right in (not my decision). On top of all that, I work night shift from 7pm to 7am. Sabreliners ftl. Ok, now that that's off my chest...

The articles Enjay posted were not the one I was hoping to read. You know, the ones where the bank robber takes out the open carrier because he/she was open carrying and was the known threat to the robber. Most people I've encountered who give reasons to not open carry use the Hollywood movie excuses. I know you guys have heard the following a million times so far...Can it happen? Yes. How likely is it. Not very.

I am glad you were able to find these realistic articles about incidents that are related to people open carrying. Some of this stuff happens, not all the time, but it doesn't make some of this stuff any less relevant.

Enjay said:

The story posted on nearly every firearm forum around the interwebs. This story is actually rather notorious due to the fact that there were no witnesses, and there has been a big battle for concealed carry in WI.

Some people, concealed and open carriers alike, have theorized that this man may have made this story up to help get more people aware that concealed carry is needed in WI. The convenience of the timing of the incident does make me question it, but there is nothing that can back the "accusations" against the incident. Then again, there were no witnesses. and the perp was never caught.

There is just not enough detail or information in the article to make a decision or educated guess on what actually happened.

Open carrying has been discussed as a way to deter a mugging. No one ever said it would always deter muggers. This could be the 1% that OC hasn't been a deterrent. Then again, it may not be. As I stated before, there is just not enough details to go by. Maybe if the perp was caught, we could know if he actually saw the firearm when he decided to rob the "victim". It sounds like we will never know. I would like to know, though, stuff like this interests me.

Enjay said:

Ahhh, I remember this one. I'm glad it didn't turn out worse.

Unexpected gun grabs can happen. This is an excellent example of why open carrying requires even more situational awareness than carrying discreetly. This gentleman who had his gun grabbed was in code white, not yellow, like he should have been. He wasn't using techniques to help keep control of his firearm either. Techniques that must be used in a crowded, busy, environment.

If you're going to OC, always wear a holster with some kind of retention other than friction. Like something with a thumb snap, trigger guard latch mechanism (Blackhawk Serpa), etc. Something with more than one retention mechanism may be better if you aren't as situationaly aware as you should be yet (Blackhawk Serper Level 3).

Always position your firearm so you are in complete control of it (or can be if a situation arises). Rest your elbow or forearm on or over the firearm to shield it if you are in a crowded area. Wearing your firearm in a crossdraw helps keep you more in control and aware of your firearm. Some don't recommend crossdraw due to the potential of muzzle sweeping, but its a good way yo OC if you don't have that "exta" level of situational awareness you need while open carrying.

If the person open carrying was paying more attention, and took the time to train himslef to defend his firearm, this situation could have ended better, like this:

http://georgiapacking.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=40381

Enjay said:

This is another story we just don't know all the details to make an educated decision on.

Was the off duty security guard open carrying or carrying discreetly?
Was the guard even in uniform?
Did the guard's firearm get taken from him after he drew it from his holster?
...

Again, not enough details.

Even so,IMO, I don't think this incident is relevant, as it pertains to someone actively investigating someone, possibly pursuing. I think that's a little different than minding ones own business while open carrying.


Dirk Pitt said:

Most of these are the same articles as Enjay posted. The one from Fairfax doesn't give any evidence the robbers were after the gun. How did the person know they robbed him because of his gun? I'm not saying it didn't happen the way it was described, there just isn't enough information,and the perps were never caught and questioned to find out the motive.

----

That's my take/opinion on those particular articles.

That being said...
IMHO, open carrying isn't for everybody. Research, training, and mental preparations must be done before venturing out and carrying in the open, more so carrying discreetly.

Just because a "hollywood", tactical criminal, type situation hasn't presented itself to an open carrier yet doesn't mean it can't happen. As mentioned 50 times in my ramblings in this post, situational awareness is paramount. I think 99 percent of negative stories, and myths (if they occur), about open carry could have been, and can be, avoided with a decent level of situational awareness and having control of your firearm at all times.

I have yet to come across anything that would change MY mind about open carry or make ME feel any less safe open carrying my firearms. Your mileage my vary.
 
Thanks for the actual links with verifiable information. 8-) Enlightening! I always thought the only people who had problems with OC were cops. Seems I only hear about cops going nuts about seeing a gun in public.
I think it is time to post this link. It will answer a lot of questions and dispel some myths, personnel beliefs and conjecture.
It also brings into the open secrets held by the Governments agencies and their paid sheeple.
Choice is the key here, and it is the Gov and their paid henchmen who deny our choice.
http://www.gunfacts.info/
 
Wow, I don't remember typing half of what I typed last night in my last post. Note to self... learn to get points across more clearly with less words...

lafayette gregory said:
Thanks for the actual links with verifiable information. 8-) Enlightening! I always thought the only people who had problems with OC were cops. Seems I only hear about cops going nuts about seeing a gun in public.
I think it is time to post this link. It will answer a lot of questions and dispel some myths, personnel beliefs and conjecture.
It also brings into the open secrets held by the Governments agencies and their paid sheeple.
Choice is the key here, and it is the Gov and their paid henchmen who deny our choice.
http://www.gunfacts.info/

Very nice! I love how the author cites where his information came from after each section in the PDF files he posted.

I will be going over his information and looking into his sources tonight. Night shift is a little slow, lol.
 
Having OC'd in Colorado (where my SC permit was no good) and CC'd in SC, I personally would choose to OC simply because I am more comfortable with it. I think there are some good points posted in favor of it. In my experience, no one seems to notice it, but I wasn't carrying a flashy pistol either. Sometimes, I don't feel like wearing the extra layer of clothing. I also pay attention to the people around me. Given the choice, and the links to articles, I would choose open carry.
 
How about this:

SECTION 16-23-20. Unlawful carrying of handgun; exceptions.
It is unlawful for anyone to carry about the person any handgun, whether concealed or not, except as follows, unless otherwise specifically prohibited by law:
(12) a person who is granted a permit under provision of law by the State Law Enforcement Division to carry a handgun about his person;
 
I am not an OC person, but that is my choice. I also think that someone that hasn't committed any disqualifying acts should be allowed to make the same choice. The 2nd amendment is being trampled by not allowing CITIZENS to make the choice of if and how they choose to express their right to bear arms.
 
I live in Washington State and have OC for over 40 years. (no permit necessary). I also have a CPL for winter, when my coat will normally cover my carry. (since 1961 we have needed a permit for CC, prior to 1961 you could OC or CC without a permit.)

In those 40+ years, there has been only one insidence where having a firearm may have mattered...there was a guy that wanted to to beat me up, much larger and in better shape. He grabbed my car door, flung it open, reached in to try grab me,,,,,and saw my holstered OC.

All of a sudden he decided that he had some pressing business elsewhere. The old Colt never left it's holster. That is what I want...I did enough shooting at other people in Vietnam to last a lifetime.

Personally, OC is much more comfortable, especially in summer. I have nothing to hide, I carry my weapon with pride in that knowledge I am able to. I also am a firm believer that an OC weapon IS a deturant to needing to use the weapon.
 
To tell the truth if we had the option to do either,,, I think the majority of the time i would be doing both. A Large auto in the blackhawk and GL 27 in the pocket.
Depending upon the season and situation of course.
 
Or, how about this:

SECTION 16-23-20. Unlawful carrying of handgun; exceptions.
It is unlawful for anyone to carry about the person any handgun, concealed, except as follows, unless otherwise specifically prohibited by law:
(12) a person who is granted a permit under provision of law by the State Law Enforcement Division to carry a handgun about his person;
 
Stono said:
Or, how about this:

SECTION 16-23-20. Unlawful carrying of handgun; exceptions.
It is unlawful for anyone to carry about the person any handgun, concealed, except as follows, unless otherwise specifically prohibited by law:
(12) a person who is granted a permit under provision of law by the State Law Enforcement Division to carry a handgun about his person;

Much better! SC would be like most of the other states out there with this verbiage.
 
I used to have an inflection on the internet, but I got it all cleared up at the Geek Squad.

And Yes, I was mocking the shootout argument.
 
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