I would like to get some feed back on those of you that have a 1911 with a red dot sight. Do you prefer it over iron sights? Do you have iron sights to index? On the few I've seen there were no iron sights. One ingenious person had two slides; one with the red dot and the other with standard sights. Wonder which sight to carry on a particular day. If you have a 1911 with a red dot sight, what manufacture (gun and optic)? Another interesting question along the same line, I noticed that in competition there was an optic class. Does this mean that if you have a 1911 with a red dot you have an advantage over iron sights. If so, why would you ever want a gun that didn't have such a sight as EDC choice? If I shoot better with a red dot, and we know that they are easily carried concealed, and I am more accurate, quicker, should I not always go optic, especially if indexed with iron sights? I have a ZEV with a Trijicon RMR-Type 2 sight. It's coindexed with iron sights, and makes me a much better shooter than I am. However, no 1911's with optic and am finding that choices are a bait more limited for the 1911 than for the numerous striker fired pistols. Hope I get some productive feedback and comments on this subject.
Red Dot sight for 1911
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Babboonbobo
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Nope just irons for me! Thought about red dot on pistol but don't want to have multiple fighting options on my pistols! I switch carry from 1911 to others such as high power, Sig P365XL and carious revolvers so I need to be able to rely 100% on muscle memory. That is too many options to put red dots on all of them so I just haven't tried them on pistols.
Red dots and optics need to be on rifles where they belong. Unless your a Leo or competitive shooter. I know some love them but not for me.
Red dots and optics need to be on rifles where they belong. Unless your a Leo or competitive shooter. I know some love them but not for me.
One of the problems faced; muscle memory. While not a good idea, most people can readily switch as EDC choice among several of their guns with no big loss in efficiency. Not so going back and forth with optic and iron, which leaves me with a ton of really nice guns that I'm almost hesitant to shoot due to above. And while of lesser importance, converting from iron sights to a red dot will leave a lot of expensive holsters useless, for most hand made, leather crafted holsters that fit the iron sights won't fit the gun once adapted for an optic sight.
Babboonbobo
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That's another thing I really hadn't thought of when I wrote that and yeah they're pricey and I just ordered two more holster sets (iwb w/elephant and mag carrier) from Warbird leather for my Sig P365XL and the new Glock 19 I just bought even though I'm not sure I'll ever carry that one but plan to learn/train with it just in case. Already too many options to choose from without adding sight options, hence I'll stay with iron sights, then every firearm at least has the same type sight picture no matter the platform.
I'll just keep the scopes for the hunting rifles and the RD and halo optics for the battle rifles .
switchback
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Prolly not much help either, as I have no pistol with RD. If I were to have RD, I would be leary of switching slides, to accomodate irons tho. Especially doe carry or defensive use. "train like you fight, fight like you train" type mindset here.
My skills have eroded some from age and likely some more from lack of practice in this new environment. But still, most of my up close work has always been point shooting. I continue to work with this technique training in basement (no live rounds!!)
For me sights are good for putting holes in paper or "longer" shots. Which I do plenty of to be sure, however, nothing like pulling the old roscoe and putting rounds on target without a sight picture.
There is a video of the great Jerry Miculek point shooting an old Colt 1911, at 10yards, IIRC, and its impressive to say the least. As I typically do, I've strayed from the original thread subject - sorry. No I don't use a RD on any pistol I own. As you guys point out, mill work, adapter plates, MRDS, new holsters, all add up to significant costs. Of course there are newly manufactured 1911s all set up for RD sights. Hhmmm.......
My skills have eroded some from age and likely some more from lack of practice in this new environment. But still, most of my up close work has always been point shooting. I continue to work with this technique training in basement (no live rounds!!)
For me sights are good for putting holes in paper or "longer" shots. Which I do plenty of to be sure, however, nothing like pulling the old roscoe and putting rounds on target without a sight picture.
There is a video of the great Jerry Miculek point shooting an old Colt 1911, at 10yards, IIRC, and its impressive to say the least. As I typically do, I've strayed from the original thread subject - sorry. No I don't use a RD on any pistol I own. As you guys point out, mill work, adapter plates, MRDS, new holsters, all add up to significant costs. Of course there are newly manufactured 1911s all set up for RD sights. Hhmmm.......
To modify one of my 1911's for a red dot, and the purchase of a Trijicon, with the work being done by the original mfg is about $1,000. Plus, a 2-6 month wait for the work. And while my Kydex holsters may accommodate the red dot, none of the leather holsters would, so add another $100 plus dollars and another 3-6 month wait. But there's no doubt in my mind that Red Dot sights are here to stay, and more and more guns will come out of the build already adapted for such sights. It has been no different for rifles. My earlier Springfield M-14 does not have any way to adapt an optical sight, whether scope or EoTech. It would have to be sent to a smith for drilling and tapping for either a a scope or a Picatinny rail. I see that the new one's are out of the box optic ready. Law enforcement have gone, across the board state, local and federal, from revolvers .38 cal to semi auto's .45, 9mm, .40 and now back to 9mm. You sill see law enforcement issuing pistols with the red dot already installed and the kids in the Police Academy will develop muscle memory for these sights. For the seasoned officer, there will be a learning curve. When I taught at the Police Academy I was amazed at the number of cadets that had never fired a pistol and those from the military had so little time with a pistol that going to a red dot would be no problem. As for Jerry Miculek, he is genetically gifted. To be the best in the world at almost anything, you have to be born with certain innate skills and then develop those skills from there. He has amazing proprioceptors. As do most of the top gun competitors.
That would be one of my Pin Guns with the two complete slide assemblies.
My carry gun always has iron sights and never have I tried Optic Carry.
Background and speed of acquisition of target and split times data all relate to Pin Shooting competition so not sure how it corresponds to use from a concealed carry self defense situation.
Since 1976 I have shot in both practice and competitions at least 15,000 pins per year.
Have not been back to Second Chance since the 20 year break but the format for our shoots across the South and lower East Coast have not changed: Speed and Accuracy.
All shooting at 25', start position is Pistol on rail at low ready. Table is steel 4' x 8' with pins 3 1/2' from rear. Rail on side of
table so the pin must go off the back. Five pins set 16" apart from pin in center of table.
You are limited to eight rounds so no mag changes.
At the start signal raise pistol off rail and shoot pins. Your time from buzzer to last pin is your score.
Any pin left on the table adds 1 second, any left standing adds 2 seconds.
Four table aggregate for match
Pix of comped and uncomped Pin Gun and Optic Gun (this is the switch top gun).
The rule for winning is go fast but not fast enough to miss.
This has been a lot of background so that you may envision from where the info on iron versus dot sights was gathered.
The money match is always Pin Gun. A pistol with or without a compensator but always iron sights only.
As a concession to some competitors we added the Optic Class along with a Top
Eliminator prize.
Never once at a major Match has an Optic Class pistol won.
The start signal to 1st shot is almost always longer and the split times are slower.
In the four years since implementing the Optic Class we have had only two sub 2
second runs with an Optic equipped pistol whereas runs in the 1.8's and 1.9's are common with the iron sighted Pin Guns.
My carry gun always has iron sights and never have I tried Optic Carry.
Background and speed of acquisition of target and split times data all relate to Pin Shooting competition so not sure how it corresponds to use from a concealed carry self defense situation.
Since 1976 I have shot in both practice and competitions at least 15,000 pins per year.
Have not been back to Second Chance since the 20 year break but the format for our shoots across the South and lower East Coast have not changed: Speed and Accuracy.
All shooting at 25', start position is Pistol on rail at low ready. Table is steel 4' x 8' with pins 3 1/2' from rear. Rail on side of
table so the pin must go off the back. Five pins set 16" apart from pin in center of table.
You are limited to eight rounds so no mag changes.
At the start signal raise pistol off rail and shoot pins. Your time from buzzer to last pin is your score.
Any pin left on the table adds 1 second, any left standing adds 2 seconds.
Four table aggregate for match
Pix of comped and uncomped Pin Gun and Optic Gun (this is the switch top gun).
The rule for winning is go fast but not fast enough to miss.
This has been a lot of background so that you may envision from where the info on iron versus dot sights was gathered.
The money match is always Pin Gun. A pistol with or without a compensator but always iron sights only.
As a concession to some competitors we added the Optic Class along with a Top
Eliminator prize.
Never once at a major Match has an Optic Class pistol won.
The start signal to 1st shot is almost always longer and the split times are slower.
In the four years since implementing the Optic Class we have had only two sub 2
second runs with an Optic equipped pistol whereas runs in the 1.8's and 1.9's are common with the iron sighted Pin Guns.
Interesting. Regardless of personal preference, you can't lie with facts.
Tactical Rico
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I'll not argue with the above facts, but..................In shooting disciples other than eight round pin shoots, optics rule. Go to any 3 gun or Tactical Shooting match (USPSA, IPSA) and you see optics on the top shooters pistols. Even IDPA has an optics class now.
Based on one of the above posts I guess I'm ingenious..............NOT !!
Anyway, I do have a Colt Commander that is/was my EDC that has two slides. I like black rear sights with a hi-vis front.
Old eyes.....but because I'm old I figured why not try a Red Dot. Didn't want to give up my EDC so I built another top end with a Trijicon RMR. Sense learning the Red Dot the old slide has not been back on the pistol........
I won't get into the process for learning how to use a Red Dot, but suffice to say, once you get it you won't look back.
As always...JMHO. Take it for what it's worth.
TR
Based on one of the above posts I guess I'm ingenious..............NOT !!
Anyway, I do have a Colt Commander that is/was my EDC that has two slides. I like black rear sights with a hi-vis front.
Old eyes.....but because I'm old I figured why not try a Red Dot. Didn't want to give up my EDC so I built another top end with a Trijicon RMR. Sense learning the Red Dot the old slide has not been back on the pistol........
I won't get into the process for learning how to use a Red Dot, but suffice to say, once you get it you won't look back.
As always...JMHO. Take it for what it's worth.
TR
As I stated in an earlier reply, there must be a reason there are two categories; one for iron and the other for red dot. I would logically think that is because the red dot sights are an un fair advantage, thus more accurate and faster than open iron sights. So I now carry my ZEV with the Trijicon Red Dot as EDC. I think one of the reasons the bowling pin guys, especially at high level competition are winning over the optic sights is because they are top shooters with amazing muscle memory from being genetically gifted and thousands of rounds practice. So they come up on target and take it from there. It would be interesting to see how well they do with their eyes closed. Mortals with far less ability and physical powers seem to find the Red Dot sight a gift from the gods. As I found with our police officers when they adapted the rifle with EoTech sights. Everyone became expert. And this is with the patrol rifle, not out to a hundred yards but normal combat distance as would be encountered in police situations. They weren't snipers but regular Patrol Officers firing from the standard patrol rifle distances, thought out to 100 yards.
No red dots on pistols for me. They add too much bulk for my liking. I like for my handguns to remain easily concealable. Rifles....that's a different story.
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I am seriously considering getting a Nighthawk TRS w/ their IOS and a Trijicon RMR, and plan to price it later this week.
I will not put them on one of my cherished 1911's. No.
Tactical Rico
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Kevin.............Go for it. As I said earlier (in this post or another on RMR's) once you get there, there is no going back.
This is as close as I could get to your Nighthawk.............
one in 9mm and one in (as you like to call it, God's caliber) 45 acp.
TR
This is as close as I could get to your Nighthawk.............
one in 9mm and one in (as you like to call it, God's caliber) 45 acp.
TR
Nice set up. Did you purchase the STI already adapted for the Red Dot or did you have the slide modified to accept one? If you had the work done, who did the cuts in the slide? Thanks
Tactical Rico
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Marinedoc:
Both pistols are H.O.S.T. models and came with mounting plates for the RMR's............
TR
Both pistols are H.O.S.T. models and came with mounting plates for the RMR's............
TR
thanks
pistolgrips
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Experienced optics competitors almost *always* rule. 95% of the time. Or better.
I saw this demonstrated at an advanced pistol course at Gunsite. One student had a Red Dot that was petty new to him. Everyone else had iron sights. He initially struggled, but after a couple of days was winning everything and got the Top Shot award for the class. And everyone there was really good. Everything was timed against life sized silhouette targets, steel plates, fin house and falling plates. After seeing this, it got me thinking about the transition to Red Dot but didn't do it until about a month ago. Slow fire is amazing and now working on new muscle memory.
batman4706
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I can't see irons anymore, so I have to have red dots on all my pistols. The new smaller RD's like the Holosun 507K are the same width as a 1911 slide. Mounted to the rear of the slide, where the irons would be makes it work on about any holster with an open top.
