Question for everyone who shoots at OFGC

L

ltrain7281

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Hello everyone,

I am wanting to get everyone's opinion that shoots our monthly match about something we are wanting to try this summer. We are in the process of building another 80-90 steel targets, all individual falling plates in 8 inch round and 6 inch square. We are hoping to have all these finished by mid-summer hopefully. With these additional targets this should put us with plenty of steel to hold our own version of a miniature Pro-Am match. What I am wanting y'all's opinion on is how you would like to see the match format.

Option 1: Regular Pro-Am, everyone is in two divisions, Open or Limited, everyone only has 10 rounds in there mags, and every stage has a par time, and any other Pro-Am specific rules. Match will also have a classifier so this will be the only stage with paper.

Option 2: Normal USPSA format and divisions, so basically the only difference from a normal match is that every stage will be all steel targets no paper (except classifier), we may actually increase the round count to 40 on a few stages just for the fun of it.

Option 3: You guys give me an idea as to what you would like to see. Do you even like the idea of an all steel match?. Please let me know

I personally have never shot a Pro-Am, but I have heard from a lot of people as to how much fun they are to shoot. My only concern as it may be kind of an issue trying to set par times fairly to were it is challenging for the highly skilled shooters and also allowing enough time for the lesser skilled shooters to at least get through several target arrays before the par time is up. Not to mention and I am not picking on anyone here but I feel that also with a par time it isn't really fair to most of the older shooters who don't quite move like a jackrabbit anymore.

You guys that have shot Pro-Ams and any matches similar please tell me your opinions good or bad of them.

I look forward to hearing everyone's opinion.

Thanks,

Loren
 
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I haven't had the opportunity to shoot a match there yet but I'd definitely consider driving there once in a while for option 2!
 
This was a awesome news! You guys rule on the steel target front already. That much more is going to give me a steelgasm.

I enjoy the heck out of the ProAm type matches. That said the ProAm format is tough to be equally fun and challenging for GM level shooters as well as D class shooters. Setting proper par times so both skill sets have fun and are challenged isn't easy.

The one frustrating part of the ProAm format is the fact that nobody gets to knock down all of the steel. I kinda enjoy shooting them all! Seems like a waste of time to setup any target if nobody is going to shoot it.

USSA used to do pistol ProAm in the morning then shotgun in the afternoon. That was so much fun despite the fact that it wore you out resetting all that steel. That's the downside of an all knockdown steel match. Reset is an ass kicker.

Personally my choice would be to shoot it all down. The mag change part is fun. You could use 10 or even 15 rd mag limits or heck if you just loaded them all up who cares!

Adding the shotgun option adds extra revenue stream to the club for the same amount of setup time.

I can't wait to shoot this!!!
 
Option 2. I always thought 10-rounds/mag in Pro-Am was really just weak nonsense. Maybe it would be sensible with a longer par time, but I'd rather fill my mags up. The par times tended to be impossible to beat, and adding three mag chages into the mix was just someone's bad idea.

Doing it with regular USPSA divisions would be excellent.
 
as much as I like 1, I have to say 2.
2 will bring more people out & they'll all have a good time.
Forget the classifier, who cares, it's a steel match.

Option 3 would be to just add 2 all steel stages into the normal USPSA match.
 
"Option 3 would be to just add 2 all steel stages into the normal USPSA match."

We will have at least one all steel stage next month for sure... Two Texas stars and the Polish/Irish star or whatever they call that dang thing and a bunch of poppers and plates;)

After reading Jesse's post, something that I hadn't thought about was how bad resetting steel wears you out over the course of a match. So taking this in consideration I'm thinking that an all steel match would be best if we held it in the fall. Hopefully it will be cooler by then and the heat won't be such an issue.

Keep the comments coming guys, I really value all you guys opinions and thoughts!!
 
Pro-Am is ****ing awesome. I loved the Pro-Am at USSA.

Option 1 all the way.

Here a thought, it's "Pro-Am"...have a Pro par time and an Am par time for each stage.

Have it on the 4th weekends of each month.

The bay's are the right size and no one is going 100 yards every shooter to pick up steel. OFGC is the perfect venue.
 
Micah_Rowe said:
Pro-Am is ****ing awesome. I loved the Pro-Am at USSA.

Option 1 all the way.

Here a thought, it's "Pro-Am"...have a Pro par time and an Am par time for each stage.

Have it on the 4th weekends of each month.

The bay's are the right size and no one is going 100 yards every shooter to pick up steel. OFGC is the perfect venue.
Click to expand...
Great points!

You guys should build 50-100 of those awesome Ponca City Rifle & Pistol Club forward falling poppers. Best popper/target ever!
 
I like 1 and 2..run regular pro am matches, then throw in an all steel pistol match on a Saturday with an all steel shotgun match on a Sunday as a special match weekend occasionally
 
Oh geez, I have a lot of thoughts on this, but I'll try to keep it short and to the point.

I love Pro-Am. If it was common and accessible, it would be my favorite game. I shot Phil's early Pro-Am's at USSA and then his Major matches, and USSA's later P/A matches, and have tried it at Coweta as well.

Pro-Am is unique and doesn't belong in the same conversation as USPSA matches whether they are all steel or not.

Option #1 is fine, except drop the Classifier. Its not a USPSA match, and it doesn't make sense to combine a Hit Factor score on the Classifier with a Par time count in the steel.
I would encourage you to use shorter par times...originally P/A stages were not supposed to ever be cleaned...not even close. Most shooters would leave more steel up than they shot down.
The good P/A matches had lots of stages with par times in the 12-15-18 second range, not 30.

10 round magazine limits are one of the 3 most important elements of P/A...all steel falling targets and Par time being the other 2.

Target size, distance, and array size should lean slightly toward 'hoser' rather than 'sniper'. Keep it fast and fun.

Worried about embarrassing the older, or slower, or less experienced shooters? Try using option #2 and you'll have guys out there for several minutes, using up all their mags, making more 'bangs' than 'dings'.
P/A Par times are merciful in this aspect. Get out there, do your best, and compare it to the others in your same class. Then revel in your success, or go home and practice. Trust me on this.

Also, on option #2: Use shorter stages. A 40 round all steel stage would be fun...once. Its a pain to watch a whole squad shoot it, annoying to shoot, and draining to reset and paint.
So really, a 40 round all steel stage would suck.
No USPSA stage should ever be over 32 rounds (a whole 'nuther thread topic) and an all steel match should only have a few long field courses.

The carry optics dorks will whine that they want their own Division, tough. Use an optic, you're in Open.
Keep the Par times the same for everyone. If the times are short enough, we'll soon find out which configuration is faster...then you can tweak stage design to take away or add any inherent advantages.

Anyway, I love the idea. P/A is a simple and proven format that doesn't need much further development, don't try to reinvent the wheel.

Loren, if you want to discuss it over a salad, let me know;-)
 
Sorry for the thread drift Loren.

Option 1 without a classifier. We get those elsewhere

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S5 using Tapatalk 5.3
 
No worries Burk,

Thanks for everyone's comments and suggestions. After reading everyone's suggestions and opinions what I think we will do is over the next several months we will try to have at least one or two all steel target stages in our normal monthly matches. These stages will consist of Texas Stars, Plate racks, USP & Pepper Poppers, and the Irish star. What I'm thinking is that if we have two all steel stages in our match one of the stages will be shot under normal USPSA rules and the other stage will be with a par time. The match will still be a USPSA match and therefore all divisions will be recognized and we will have a classifier. The reason for this is that it will be later this year before we have all these new falling plates and the stands built and ready to use. So we will have to use what we currently have on hand, but by going ahead and adding at least one par time stage per match this will give me a better idea as to how to set these stages up and how to set the par time correctly for when we do true Pro-Am match.

Once we have all these new targets build and ready to use, what I am hoping is that we can start having a true Pro-Am match maybe every other month on the fourth Sunday. Since Pryor is not shooting USPSA this year this leaves this weekend open without stepping on another clubs toes as far as I am aware (if anyone knows of another match that this will hurt their attendance please let me know, as I do not wish to steal/take shooters away from anyone's normal matches). The only other club that I know that shoots on the fourth Sunday is the Benton Gun Club just south of Little Rock. This club is a little over three hours from us here in Ft. Smith. So if we have this on the fourth Sunday I don't think that we will hurt their attendance much at all.

When we finally get to have our first true P/A match we will set it up just for the two normal P/A divisions Open and Limited. There will be just one set par time per stage regardless of your skill level, and you will only be allowed 10 rounds in each mag. Robert made a lot of good points in his post above about what makes the P/A a truly unique match and I really want to give this an honest attempt. Once we have this match I or someone else can start a thread on here so that we can discuss and get everyone's opinion good or bad about the match and what changes everyone would like to see. After this match if we don't like it we can do an all steel match USPSA style/format, and divisions. Basically what I am saying is that nothing is set in stone and I want to try several different ways of having an all steel match to see what everyone enjoys the most.
 
AWESOME idea!!

par times should be long enough for 1-2 reloads (reloading is part of the game...)

Please have a shotgun division at every match (pro am match) for us 3-gun junkies

22lr for kids? (rifle or pistol)







no need for classifiers
 
In USPSA you can't have an all steel stage, you must have at least 1 paper. So technically it wouldn't be legal to have in the monthly match and if protested, should be thrown out of the match. Which would be a lot of work for nothing.

Believe me, there WILL be some people that will want it tossed due to being illegal under uspsa rules. Especially with trying to use par times on an all steel stage without uspsa rules, during a uspsa match. I would not recommend doing that in the monthly uspsa match, you will lose some shooters that want strictly uspsa.

The irish star takes forever to reset, shoot, balance, plates fall off etc and I would use it sparingly. If we followed the rules to the T, everybody on our squad last month would have had to reshoot it multiple times.

I used to shoot Pro-Am matches as well when Phil was doing them at USSA and they are fun to shoot, but reset sucks!
 
Actually, 4.3.1.4 says you cant use all plates in a course of fire. It must include one popper or paper target.

Sorry for being "that guy" but it can still be shot under USPSA.. :)
 
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