Practicing classifiers

[mike cyrwus]

What do you guys think about finding out what particular classifier is going to be held at a match beforehand, and then spending time to set it up and try to ingrain it to memory? Is there any issue with doing this, and conflicting with the values of sportsmanship and the spirit of the game, seeing as that classifier stage is part of an actual match?

curious.

 

[Matt1911]

I see it as a way to lie to yourself about your true skill level.
I've seen it over and over again where people will shoot these classifier matches that allow you to reshoot until your wallet won't let you anymore in an effort to get A,M etc. But when they shoot the next weekends match, they're getting their asses stomped by guys who are 2 rankings lower on paper.

 

[Robaire Pullicar]

Every classifier match I have ever shot. I was unclassified in the division I shot in and I didn't reshoot any stages. So I don't feel bad about it. But then again I don't really care about what letter is in my card.

 

[gng4life]

I really don't see it as a problem. If someone wants to practice and move up in class to be representative of their skills, then so be it. This is no different than someone getting the stages before a big match and setting them up and practicing them.

Also, the classifier is usually a small portion of a local match. It's one of those stages where you can lose a match on it but you won't win the match there.

 

[Tuflehundon]

That's how you get paper GM's. I to have seen poeple shoot a classifier 10 or 12 times until they got the numbers they wanted on paper. But those numbers did not represent the actual skill level they had. Guys who are A or M on paper, getting smoked by the B's & C's.

It's one thing to reshoot it because you royally screwed up. It's another to reshoot it 10 times.

If you want to practice so your numbers will go up, then practice everthing. Have the skills to get the numbers everytime.

 

[Feegee]

I feel the same about the paying to shoot a classifier until you get the results that you want. It should be one and done, but I do have some classifiers set up on the wall for dry fire practice like el prez and one other so I can see if my skill level is going up or down. I don't believe in trying to be a paper GM it's just going to make you look like a ass.

 

[drmitchgibson]

Classifier skills are the most necessary, but only half of what you need to run a stage. I think the system is outdated, especially given that movement and high round counts are the norm. If you can practice for the test only to make rank, it makes the ranking system meaningless. It's like being awesome at sprinting but not being able run more than 35 feet. I'd like to see a more merit-based system that reflects stage performance.

And in reality the classifiers are almost all sort of the same. SHO/WHO have fallen out of favor, prone shooting almost never happens, kneeling shooting almost never happens. We just have a little bit of leaning, some turns, sometime-y no-shoots/hardcover, mag changes, and freestyle shooting making up the bread and butter of classifiers that are chosen for inclusion in the matches.

I really like the idea that what's-his-name running for USPSA President had for classifications being maxed at 100% of the best performance at Nationals. Cold shooting, no gaming. Realistic rankings.

 

[jtischauser]

I don't think classifiers are a good measure of the shooting performance required by an actual USPSA match. Yet they are an important part of the sport especially to new shooters and shooters looking to measure their shooting growth. Classifiers require almost no movement which is one of the most important things in an actual match. Classifiers require strong and weakhand shooting which is rarely done in an actual match. Classifiers require flat footed reloads which we all strive to avoid in a match. Since it is a totally different skill set as compared to a match I consider classifiers a game within the game. So they should be treated differently and trained for differently. In order to shoot classifiers at a GM level you have to practice those specific skills a lot. Knowing what exact test or classified you are getting ready for simply makes training easier and more efficient. Let's face it some shooters will never make GM no matter how or what they practice and some shooters should be GM but they simply don't care enough or have time to devote to classifier practice. So I have zero issues with someone knowing what classifiers are coming up and training for shooting classifiers. Nor do I have issues with clubs allowing shooters to pay to reshoot classifier matche multiple times. Really it is no different then seeing the stage diagrams for an upcoming major match then going out and training to be ready for those specific scenarios. Actually there is more on the line in terms of prizes at a big match compared to making your GM card through classifier shooting. So I might argue that if you're against classifier practice then you should be all for no stage diagrams prior to a major match and I might even go to the extreme and say you should be in favor of blind stages or even no walk throughs/air gunning prior to shooting a stage.

 

[Airic]

I think this is just another thing to people to gripe about that really doesnt affect anything in the overall scope of the sport. A person participates in this sport to have fun most of the time. That fun can be just going to matches to hang with friends or trying to compete to be at the top, or that fun can be trying to accomplish something. There are people out there who do not care about winning matches, they are just happy to be the local hot dog GM. There are people out there that participate in the sport because they want to be a 5x GM in USPSA and 5 gun master in IDPA. Everyone does it for thier own reasons and who are we to tell them how to have a good time?

A guy shoots classifiers over and over, makes GM. He goes to a major match and gets slaughtered, How did that affect anyone but himself? Its not bothering any of us.

Classifer style stages are the building blocks of the sport. If you can't stand and shoot, you cant move and shoot. If you cant reload standing still, you cant reload on the move. The exact reason people do better on field courses than classifiers is because theres no where to hide things on a classifier. You can't out run everyone else, you cant have a better or more effiecent plan. Your just stuck, you gotta perform.

If your not practicing classifiers, your not helping yourself. Pretty much every small drill out there is a piece of a classifier in some way.

If someone wants to get the posted stages, or posted classifiers and practice them all week prior to a match....who cares? Sprinters run 100m sprints over and over, hurdlers practice the exact hurdling course they are gonna run, nascar drivers make multiple track runs prior to the race. In almost every sport the team or person tries to recreate game time conditions to prepare themselves. Why is it a problem in ours?

The best thing about this is that those people think they are helping themselves. Most of the people who practice like this are not putting in the hard work or reps for months prior to match day. That is what makes the real difference in skill.

 

[TerryKendell]

Mitch and Jesse you are correct about Classifiers not being a good measure of a USPA Match.

Link to June 14 H&H Match https://www.practiscore.com/results.php?uuid=8F81163B-F955-47EC-99D1-5414AB2022E4

I came in 35th out of 42 shooters

On the Six Chickens Classifier I was 15th of 42 shooters (Eleven Shooters Received Zero Match Points)

 

[mike cyrwus]

ok, good points, how bout this scenario:

Is there anything wrong if I were to go to, say, okcgc on a friday night, and put up paper on a stage and practice that stage over and over, for a match the very next morning? that doesn't make you want to roll your eyes at all?

What I see is a version of moral relativity in play here. The same version and the same thinking that has our society in politically correct mode.

My feeling on this and many other issues, is that if its not "right", its wrong. Not kinda wrong, or "well, hes not really helping himself by doing that". I think its a instance where society's "magnetic field" is messing with everyone's moral compass.

Stuff like this doesnt get righted via a rule book change , or a slap on the wrist, it gets fixed via attitudes nd opinions and peer pressure. that's all I'm doing here, and that's all I'm advocating; talk and opinion.

 

[mike cyrwus]

I consider classifiers a game within the game.

i understand that analogy, but remember, classifiers are a stage in a match. a match that has results, and lets not give classifier stages any more leeway regarding cheating or unsportsmanlike conduct, or safety, or anything more than any other stage.
I think to have a "results" from a classifier match is kinda silly, especially when you have two scores for yourself in the same division. thats not the first time someof you guys beat yourself.

 

[jtischauser]

ok, good points, how bout this scenario:

Is there anything wrong if I were to go to, say, okcgc on a friday night, and put up paper on a stage and practice that stage over and over, for a match the very next morning? that doesn't make you want to roll your eyes at all?

What I see is a version of moral relativity in play here. The same version and the same thinking that has our society in politically correct mode.

My feeling on this and many other issues, is that if its not "right", its wrong. Not kinda wrong, or "well, hes not really helping himself by doing that". I think its a instance where society's "magnetic field" is messing with everyone's moral compass.

Stuff like this doesnt get righted via a rule book change , or a slap on the wrist, it gets fixed via attitudes nd opinions and peer pressure. that's all I'm doing here, and that's all I'm advocating; talk and opinion.

I gotta good name for your first book, Righting Your Moral Compass Thru Classifiers by Mike Cyrwus.

 

[mike cyrwus]

I take shooting too seriously. shooting/guns/competition; its all I do. There is no separation. I sometimes wish it was just something fun to do on the weekends.

For example, I still believe it 100% of the time when people tell me that they want to be a better shooter,. Im such a sucker sometimes.

 

[Airic]

ok, good points, how bout this scenario:

Is there anything wrong if I were to go to, say, okcgc on a friday night, and put up paper on a stage and practice that stage over and over, for a match the very next morning? that doesn't make you want to roll your eyes at all?

What I see is a version of moral relativity in play here. The same version and the same thinking that has our society in politically correct mode.

My feeling on this and many other issues, is that if its not "right", its wrong. Not kinda wrong, or "well, hes not really helping himself by doing that". I think its a instance where society's "magnetic field" is messing with everyone's moral compass.

Stuff like this doesnt get righted via a rule book change , or a slap on the wrist, it gets fixed via attitudes nd opinions and peer pressure. that's all I'm doing here, and that's all I'm advocating; talk and opinion.

To me theres a very fine line. If you are picking out paticular skill sets from posted stages or setting your interpretation of the posted stage, then no, your not doing anything wrong. Everyone else out there can do that. If you are part of the match staff that set stages and have specific knowledge about how the match and stages are going to be set....different story. While I dont think thats illegal, rules wise, it does present a ethical dilemma. You are taking specific knowledge that other competitors do not have and applying it.

 

[Feegee]

ok, good points, how bout this scenario:

Is there anything wrong if I were to go to, say, okcgc on a friday night, and put up paper on a stage and practice that stage over and over, for a match the very next morning? that doesn't make you want to roll your eyes at all?

What I see is a version of moral relativity in play here. The same version and the same thinking that has our society in politically correct mode.

My feeling on this and many other issues, is that if its not "right", its wrong. Not kinda wrong, or "well, hes not really helping himself by doing that". I think its a instance where society's "magnetic field" is messing with everyone's moral compass.

Stuff like this doesnt get righted via a rule book change , or a slap on the wrist, it gets fixed via attitudes nd opinions and peer pressure. that's all I'm doing here, and that's all I'm advocating; talk and opinion.

If a person is going to do something like going on Friday to shoot a classifier so they can be better on Saturday is chickenshit and more than likely if they're having to do that their skills are not good enough anyways and the truth will always come out at the end of the day in the results.

 

[Wall]

If a match staff sets up stages for the upcoming match to practice, it's unfair to every competitor that wasn't invited to the practice session. That goes for classifiers & any other stages.

 

[Feegee]

If a match staff sets up stages for the upcoming match to practice, it's unfair to every competitor that wasn't invited to the practice session. That goes for classifiers & any other stages.

[emoji651]️ THIS [emoji651]️

 

[Matt1911]

Somebody practicing the whole match a day before the event, that's BS.
If you wanna spend time practicing a classifier, then have fun being bored.

 

[Jeff T.]

If a match staff sets up stages for the upcoming match to practice, it's unfair to every competitor that wasn't invited to the practice session. That goes for classifiers & any other stages.

I agree this is unfair.

I am old, fat, slow, blind in one eye and can't see very well out of the the other eye, live a long way from a range, have to work full time, only get to dry fire practice once or twice a week for maybe 30 minutes or an hour, have only been shooting competitively for a 2 or 3 years, started too late to be great.
This is also unfair.
Who Said Life Was Fair?
They Lied!
I have consistently gotten better since I started, I still have a long way to go to be considered good.
I practice every chance I get, I have never shot a COF for a match, before the match, not because it's not fair, but, because I don't think it's right to take advantage.