Pistol caliber carbine question

[bigfutz]

I still like the looks of those Taurus Circuit Judge revolver carbines. Even more so if you make it Raging = .454 Casull + .45 Colt + 410 GA shotshell.

 

[armaborealis]

Ballistically I you get a lot out of the revolver cartridges (esp .357 mag and .44 mag) in a carbine barrel. I have a Marlin 1894C (paired with a GP-100 also in .357!) with a fair amount of custom work into it and it is a sweet rifle. While I love my 1894C and I think it would do the job on a deer, it wouldn't be my first choice. I brought it on one caribou hunt where I was still-hunting in the winter in a drainage and expected all shots to be inside 100 yards (it was the end of the season and I was on a snowshoe hunt, desperately trying to fill a tag at the end of the season). I know it works great on small game but so does my .22 marlin 39M, and that is a lot cheaper to shoot as well. While I love my .357 and probably won't sell it, in retrospect I think the .44 mag is a better bet -- it is a very credible cartridge on black bear and deer and hogs. I think the .357 would get the job done but I just prefer to ensure a good clean kill.

The semiatuo cartridges don't seem to get nearly as much. What you do get out of the carbine vs. a pistol is a longer sight radius (relevant with irons), a shoulder mount (more secure), more accessory mounts (for lights and such) and maybe 10% more velocity (which may actually be a bad thing if it is too fast for your HP to reliably expand). I see a PCC as basically (1) making it easier for someone with limited training to employ a handgun cartridge effectively or (2) bringing the max effective range of the pistol out from around 25 yards to 75-100 yards. I think the best use for a PCC in a semiauto caliber (9/40/45/10mm) is probably as a "trunk gun" with mags matching your sidearm.

While I love pistol caliber carbines theoretically, in practice I find myself gravitating to an AR platform for 2-legged problems and a 30-30 or 45-70 for four legged target sets. If things ahve gotten to the point where I want to be able to share ammo between my sidearm and rifle, I want a real rifle.

 

[melloyello]

At what barrel length does a handgun cartridge have diminishing returns?

I love this site....
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/index.html

Looks like 17" for 9x19, 40 S&W and 44 mag
Looks like 16" for 38 Special and 357 mag

 

[Regulis7]

I currently have a Marlin 1894 .44 Special/.44Mag and its an awesome hog gun or woods gun for white tail, its also a perfect mate to my Taurus Tracker .44 Mag revolver. My preferred load for both the 1894 and Tracker is using a Mag case, 220gr cast bullet loaded to the very high end of the .44 Special specs. Works well on hogs and white tail and does not have the added punishment of full power .44 mag.

Due to back problems I will eventually trade the .44's off and replace them with .357 revolver and lever rifle. Cervical Fusions and recoil dont go well together.

 

[ReefShark]

I traded for a Circuit Judge today. Great deal for both parties. She's a beauty. 45/410

Looking forward to getting her out to Boggy Head.

 

[Midnight Raver]

Didn't High Point make a carbine in .40 S&W? I wish I could have one up here in Moscowchusetts, it would be a great companion with the Glock 22!

 

[Regulis7]

Midnight Raver,

The Hi-Point carbines come in 9mm/.40S&W and .45ACP. I used to own the HP 995 (carbine) in 9mm but traded it to my son for some reloading equipment, he still has it and loves it. For the money the Hi-Point carbines are awesome shooters and more accurate than the KelTec Sub 2000's I have shot. The down side is they are butt ugly and do not share mags with the Hi-Point handguns. They do require tools for breakdown and can be time consuming unlike the KelTec or other semi auto PCC's.

ReefShark,

Congrats of the Circuit Judge!!!! Those things look great.

 

[craigp]

I have a Beretta CX4 and a Keltect Sub 2000 both in 9mm. Already have the AR platform world covered so I wanted someting in a common caliber with my pistols. The 9mm is an improvement over what the 22 can deliver and is cheaper than the .223. Both rifles have slightly different shooting characteristics and honestly I can't say one is an overwhelming favorite over the other. The CX4 did have less recoil than the 2000. I did like the sights on the 2000 a little better. Both came with standard 10 round magazines which for the 2000 has been rectified as it takes Glock mags. Haven't upgraded to a larger capacity mag for the Bereta just yet.

 

[armaborealis]

Midnight Raver,

The Hi-Point carbines come in 9mm/.40S&W and .45ACP. I used to own the HP 995 (carbine) in 9mm but traded it to my son for some reloading equipment, he still has it and loves it. For the money the Hi-Point carbines are awesome shooters and more accurate than the KelTec Sub 2000's I have shot. The down side is they are butt ugly and do not share mags with the Hi-Point handguns. They do require tools for breakdown and can be time consuming unlike the KelTec or other semi auto PCC's.

I think the .40 HiPoint handguns and carbines share mags. I picked up a HiPoint handgun with a great price on sale, with the intent of pairing it with a carbine. The handgun was really disappointing. Constant malfunctions. It only reliably feeds with 6 or 7 rounds in the mag. I tried multiple mags and a few other fixes and it is still finicky.

I have not bothered to dump money into the matching carbine. It is way low on the wish list. I can't think of a situation where it would really get used. For cheap plinking I like .22. For serious defensive work I like my AR. Heck, even the AR is cheaper for plinking than a pistol caliber carbine these days; AmmoMan has 5.56 XM193 for $0.22/round and 9mm runs $0.25/round. For hunting, if I want a quick-handling handy carbine I'll use my 1894 or 1895 guide gun. If I carried the HiPoint pistol regularly then the carbine might make sense as a trunk gun but there's no way I trust my life to the JCP.

If I was really on a budget and needed a quality defensive sidearm and carbine I'l opt for a Model 10 M&P revolver or a CZ-82 plus an AK or entry level AR over a HiPoint combo. If for some reason could only get one caliber for the sidearm and the rifle I'd be much more interested in a .357 or .44 caliber.

I love the idea of an affordable sidearm/carbine combo but the HiPoint execution just doesn't cut it for me.

 

[bigfutz]

Someone has listed the much sought after Ruger 44 carbine for $450 in Columbia:
http://www.armslist.com/posts/551061

 

[thehammer69]

For serious defensive work I like my AR. Heck, even the AR is cheaper for plinking than a pistol caliber carbine these days; AmmoMan has 5.56 XM193 for $0.22/round and 9mm runs $0.25/round.

you need to go back to ammoman and recheck your XM193 prices. The price is $399.99 for 1000 rounds, which equals 40 cents a round. they also have a 500 round box for $225. I'm thinking you thought it was a 1000 round box at 22.5 cents a round but it actually is 45 cents a round on that box since there is only 500 rounds in it.

 

[armaborealis]

For serious defensive work I like my AR. Heck, even the AR is cheaper for plinking than a pistol caliber carbine these days; AmmoMan has 5.56 XM193 for $0.22/round and 9mm runs $0.25/round.

you need to go back to ammoman and recheck your XM193 prices. The price is $399.99 for 1000 rounds, which equals 40 cents a round. they also have a 500 round box for $225. I'm thinking you thought it was a 1000 round box at 22.5 cents a round but it actually is 45 cents a round on that box since there is only 500 rounds in it.

Oooh, you're right! I thought that was for 1000 rds, not 500. It seemed plausible as I got a SWEET deal on 5.56 not too long ago (ran about 3 rounds per dollar).

So the pistol caliber stuff is still cheaper. But not by much. .22 LR is still much, much cheaper than any centerfire round (pistol or rifle) for casual plinking.