Opinions on 22LR Conversion for AR
- Thread starter bigfutz
- Start date
bigfutz
Well-Known Fanatic
Good deals on the good mags here:
http://www.JoeBobOutfitters.com/AR_15_22LR_s/52.htm
Plus, Gearhog.com had $30 coupons for $15, ends today (14 hr left as of Tue at noon).
http://www.JoeBobOutfitters.com/AR_15_22LR_s/52.htm
Plus, Gearhog.com had $30 coupons for $15, ends today (14 hr left as of Tue at noon).
bigfutz
Well-Known Fanatic
I picked up a used Ciener from another member. I'm now looking for some parts to refurb it, in particular a firing pin. I'd like to get the titanium one, but I'm not finding many options (see research below). Any suggestions on where I might buy one?
$25 Titanium http://1022central.com/ar15.php
$13.65 OEM http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/Products.aspx?catid=1285
OOS Titanium http://blackdogmachinellc.net/titanium-firing-pin-for-the-ar15-22-conversion-kits.aspx
$11 Hardened http://blackdogmachinellc.net/ciener-firing-pin.aspx
$14.95 SS pin, $29.95 rehab kit, $12.95 2 sets of springs
http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/category/22LR-Parts--Accessories-225
$25 Titanium http://1022central.com/ar15.php
$13.65 OEM http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/Products.aspx?catid=1285
OOS Titanium http://blackdogmachinellc.net/titanium-firing-pin-for-the-ar15-22-conversion-kits.aspx
$11 Hardened http://blackdogmachinellc.net/ciener-firing-pin.aspx
$14.95 SS pin, $29.95 rehab kit, $12.95 2 sets of springs
http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/category/22LR-Parts--Accessories-225
Clicker
Well-Known Fanatic
I go with a regular FP from Blackdog. You might consider a new recoil spring also. I only saw the spring kit from Lakeside listed.
You'll have to cut their recoil spring down as it's too long. I'm running a Lakeside spring in my kit.
You'll have to cut their recoil spring down as it's too long. I'm running a Lakeside spring in my kit.
Tigerstripe
Well-Known Fanatic
$11 isnt bad, did you check CMMG?
bigfutz
Well-Known Fanatic
Previous post edited to show CMMG. I had only been looking at resellers for CMMG.Tigerstripe said:
bigfutz
Well-Known Fanatic
PSA has the CMMG for $40 off = $139 w coupon code
http://www.slickguns.com/product/cmmg-alpha-black-phosphate-25-round-magazine-13999-after-coupon
http://www.slickguns.com/product/cmmg-alpha-black-phosphate-25-round-magazine-13999-after-coupon
11B3XCIB
Well-Known Fanatic
BigFutz,
How do you like the Ciener kit? You mentioned doing some refurbishing, so I'm not sure if you've got it up and running yet.
I just purchased my 5.56mm suppressor and paid the tax stamp, but the .22LR conversion is next on my list. CMMG and Ciener are the top two I'm considering, plus Spike's has a kit out there. It'll come down to price and availability. I've found a Mossberg AR-15 style .22lr rifle for about $260, when CMMG UPPERS cost $330+. That might be the way to go. Have a dedicated AR style plinker so I'm not fouling my nicely built tactical rifles. I'd have much less worry about my younger brothers firing a dedicated plinker versus my $1000+ build...
How do you like the Ciener kit? You mentioned doing some refurbishing, so I'm not sure if you've got it up and running yet.
I just purchased my 5.56mm suppressor and paid the tax stamp, but the .22LR conversion is next on my list. CMMG and Ciener are the top two I'm considering, plus Spike's has a kit out there. It'll come down to price and availability. I've found a Mossberg AR-15 style .22lr rifle for about $260, when CMMG UPPERS cost $330+. That might be the way to go. Have a dedicated AR style plinker so I'm not fouling my nicely built tactical rifles. I'd have much less worry about my younger brothers firing a dedicated plinker versus my $1000+ build...
Tigerstripe
Well-Known Fanatic
11B3XCIB said:
you arent planning to use the 5.56 suppressor with a 22 conversion are you?
bigfutz
Well-Known Fanatic
Regarding the conversion, I think they're all made about the same, with the exception of maybe the Stag which from what I can tell is not 100% compatible (mags, etc). If I were buying new, I would probably go with the CMMG stainless. I think most of my current issues are now mag related, may be my lower. I'll update the post with my full synopsis once I have it at 100%.
Have you actually held the Mossy? I think it's their Plinkster shoved inside a toy gun. Go to Dick's SG and look at it. If you want a dedicated 22, there are much better options for not much more $$. I went with the conversion as a quick and dirty way to play w/ my AR. I have a dedicated 22: a Ruger 10/22!
Tigerstripe, what about the supressor?
Have you actually held the Mossy? I think it's their Plinkster shoved inside a toy gun. Go to Dick's SG and look at it. If you want a dedicated 22, there are much better options for not much more $$. I went with the conversion as a quick and dirty way to play w/ my AR. I have a dedicated 22: a Ruger 10/22!
Tigerstripe, what about the supressor?
11B3XCIB
Well-Known Fanatic
Tigerstripe said:
bigfutz said:
Yeah, this. What is wrong with using a 5.56mm suppressor firing .22lr rounds? Every major suppressor manufacturer green lights this practice. Not to mention, it's quiet as all get out. If it's because the fullsize can "gets dirty and can't be taken apart" like a .22lr specific can, suppressors don't need the baffles cleaned often, if at all. The fouling actually helps with destructive interference so the amplitude is smaller...basically, the dirt makes it more quiet. You can submerge a fullsize can in aluminum safe solvent, drain, and blow out with an air compressor. You really just need to focus on the threads and the exterior.
Tigerstripe
Well-Known Fanatic
i didnt think you could because of the buildup in a can you cant open.
anybody else know about this?
anybody else know about this?
bigfutz
Well-Known Fanatic
It's amazing how much fouling they can fit into such a tiny cartridge! Seems all the problems I hear regarding 22LR are due to fouling. Does anybody mfg a clean 22?
11B3XCIB
Well-Known Fanatic
Tigerstripe said:
I realize the round produces more buildup than the 5.56mm round, but like I said, I'd fire 5000+ rounds before I'd think about cleaning the inside. This is from Gemtech's website: "If you wish to clean your suppressor you may submerge it in one of the solvents listed above. Soak it for 24-48 hours, remove and allow to drain. Once drained, blow the inside of the suppressor dry with compressed air. This cleaning can be helpful in the case of pistol suppressors that are fired "wet" to help remove any buildup of ablative grease, etc. "
But, like I mentioned before, they also say: We do not recommend cleaning the baffle stack of any of our centerfire suppressors. Although they may look dirty, the small amount of carbon buildup inside is both normal, and beneficial. It will actually make the suppressor slightly quieter. This is known as "destructive interference". I was struggling to recall high school and college physics during the lessons on how sound travels and behaves when they were trying to make us more effective sneaking up on people in the dark.
Anyhow, Gemtech also recommends cleaning the mount/threads, and coat the outside with a light coat of gun oil.
Firing .22lr through your 5.56mm suppressor isn't a problem, provided, like EVERY firearm ever, it is properly maintained. I've even shot .22lr through a 9mm pistol suppressor when I was testing cans prior to purchase. Worked like a charm.
11B3XCIB
Well-Known Fanatic
Not to beat a dead horse, but I have some new and pertinent information. I was turning in a Form 4 to a local suppressor manufacturer and spoke with him at length about this topic.
I asked about shooting .22LR through a 5.56mm suppressor. Fouling or particulates from the .22 rounds aren't a problem for most suppressors. If a suppressor, like Gemtech for example, has baffling with small holes then these small holes or ports may get gummed up from firing .22LR, which is why Gemtech says you can submerge their single piece cans to clean them. I can't post a photo because Innovative Arms owns the design, it's patented, and they kindly asked me not to, but the IA baffle core is cut from a single piece of stainless steel. There are no holes besides the one the round travels through, and the shape of the cuts and the core altogether promote "self cleaning". Basically, it's designed so the expulsion of the round also blows a lot of the exhaust gas out with it. The owner told me if I were to fire several hundred .22LR rounds through the 5.56mm suppressor, that it would be recommended to fire 5-10 5.56mm rounds out after all the .22LR is complete to "clean" it. The stainless core is another reason you can shoot the suppressor wet with no problems. I would probably blow it out with my air compressor afterwards, but that's just me. Additionally, IA has suppressors that were purchased by a nuclear plant in SC who's security force has put over 30,000 rounds through with no problems. Direct quote from the owner/builder: "I build them so they don't have to come back here." Although it would be possible to cut the 2 welds on the can and remove the core for modification or repair, from what I've seen it will not be necessary. The core in these particular suppressors is rock freakin' solid, cut from a 1.5"x6" solid block of steel. Going to be tough to destroy that. There is a picture on IA's website regarding their .22LR suppressors and the core for their .22 Apex is very similar to the 5.56mm can only the .22 can is aluminum and the Grunt is steel. The picture is kind of small, so I don't know if the surfaces are polished on the Apex or grooved for extra sound wave destruction...I'd imagine the latter.
After the conversation and demonstration, I am fully confident about shooting .22LR out of any quality built suppressor.
I asked about shooting .22LR through a 5.56mm suppressor. Fouling or particulates from the .22 rounds aren't a problem for most suppressors. If a suppressor, like Gemtech for example, has baffling with small holes then these small holes or ports may get gummed up from firing .22LR, which is why Gemtech says you can submerge their single piece cans to clean them. I can't post a photo because Innovative Arms owns the design, it's patented, and they kindly asked me not to, but the IA baffle core is cut from a single piece of stainless steel. There are no holes besides the one the round travels through, and the shape of the cuts and the core altogether promote "self cleaning". Basically, it's designed so the expulsion of the round also blows a lot of the exhaust gas out with it. The owner told me if I were to fire several hundred .22LR rounds through the 5.56mm suppressor, that it would be recommended to fire 5-10 5.56mm rounds out after all the .22LR is complete to "clean" it. The stainless core is another reason you can shoot the suppressor wet with no problems. I would probably blow it out with my air compressor afterwards, but that's just me. Additionally, IA has suppressors that were purchased by a nuclear plant in SC who's security force has put over 30,000 rounds through with no problems. Direct quote from the owner/builder: "I build them so they don't have to come back here." Although it would be possible to cut the 2 welds on the can and remove the core for modification or repair, from what I've seen it will not be necessary. The core in these particular suppressors is rock freakin' solid, cut from a 1.5"x6" solid block of steel. Going to be tough to destroy that. There is a picture on IA's website regarding their .22LR suppressors and the core for their .22 Apex is very similar to the 5.56mm can only the .22 can is aluminum and the Grunt is steel. The picture is kind of small, so I don't know if the surfaces are polished on the Apex or grooved for extra sound wave destruction...I'd imagine the latter.
After the conversation and demonstration, I am fully confident about shooting .22LR out of any quality built suppressor.
11B3XCIB
Well-Known Fanatic
The more I look into .22LR conversions, dedicated .22LR rifles (S&W MP 15-22, Mossber 715, dedicated uppers), and now I'm looking at bolt action .22 rifles. Savage has a pre-threaded model that is unbelievably quiet with the suppressor. Not to mention they are substantially less expensive. I'm not a "rock 'n roll" type of firer, so well placed bolt action shots are fine with me. I do have an AR-15 and the suppressor is intended for that, so if I get trigger happy, there's my platform. I can dump squirrels more quietly with the suppressed .22 bolt rifle than my Gamo Whisper pellet rifle.
Clicker
Well-Known Fanatic
Yup I love my Savage MKII with a can, it's mouse fart quiet with subs. You can't be planning to mount a heavy 556 can on it, so what are you gonna get?11B3XCIB said:
True to the original subject I like to rock & roll with my 22 kit!
11B3XCIB
Well-Known Fanatic
Clicker said:
Again, what's wrong with mounting a fullsize 5.56mm can on a .22lr rifle? It's only 3/16" larger in diameter and less than a pound heavier. Any shot except a Hollywood or a test-fire is usually taken from a bench rest or bipod. I refuse to pay for an additional tax stamp (and suppressor) when the 5.56mm can will work just fine, if not better. I don't plan on pistol mounting it.
Clicker
Well-Known Fanatic
First off I'm not trying to say you can't run a 5.56 can on a 22LR but that you'll be much happier (long term) if you go with a designated 22LR can. This is because ounces count when you're talking about 22 rimfires. The barrel is not as rigid as larger centerfire rifles and I tend to believe this could cause accuracy problems or at the very least a greater POI shift.11B3XCIB said:
I have a SS 22LR can that weighs 10.5 oz. and it feels like a brick compared to a 4 oz. aluminum can on identical hosts. I carry my rifles into the woods and hunt so this weight and size thing becomes very real when you drag it around for a few hours.
Any suppressor is better than no suppressor! Good luck on your NFA journey and I'm looking forward to a range report when you get the stamp.
11B3XCIB
Well-Known Fanatic
I don't have any other place to shoot besides a range/personal property. I won't be tromping around in the woods for endless hours carrying the rifle, even though that's what the vast majority of my military experience has been. I know the .22LR dedicated can would be the best option, but I can't buy an endless supply of them. I definitely plan on getting .30 and .45 caliber cans ($2000 investment), so the .22 will probably be the last I get. I know a 19oz suppressor vs a 4 oz suppressor will make a huge difference on the front of a little .22 rifle, but I don't think it'll be too bad. Not ideal, but manageable.
