Tactica
Well-Known Fanatic
I shoot USPSA open and love it. I have a rifle from Matt over a Predator Tactical and it looks like it should do just fine in open. That takes me to the shotgun.
I'm trying to do my homework and get an education on Open division shotguns so I can figure out where I want to put my $. I've skimmed through the 4 pages of shotgun here and read the entries that seemed on point for open. My aim is to shoot midwest matches. I don't plan on traveling coast to coast anytime soon for shooting. If I can drive there, I'll consider it. I'm far from independently wealthy, but love open, so I realize that puts me in a precarious position, but nonetheless, it's fascinating to me and I'm not looking back. Point is, cost is important to me. I can't afford a duplicate of each gun in 3-gun... I don't even have a backup open gun, just some spare parts of things that may go bad in the field... so reliability is also important to me. I need to be able to maintain what I buy, but I need it to run while maintaining as much of a competitive edge as I can.
I'm pretty green when it comes to the shotgun. I've shot FN SLP Mk 1 (stock, last night), Benelli M2 (stock few months ago at fellow shooter's home), Open Saiga (in my one and only shotgun competition, set up for open, but several feeding problems - see vid from Gateway 3-gun Practical Shotgun match last weekend), and a few other winchester / remington stock pumps and semi-auto field guns over the years on hunting trips. That's it... that's my shotgun experience. However, I tend to learn reasonably quick. Example, I've only been shooting competition since late 2010.
My current perspective is that open division shotgun choice in large part is based on feeding system. That then tends to drive the gun model of choice and quest for reliability. Not sure if that's a fair assessment or not...
Feeding systems, from what I can gather, seem to boil down to:
1 - Some kind of stick / speed loader feeding a traditional semi-auto with large extended capacity mag tube
2 - Xrail or the equivilent proprietary solution replacing the traditional or extended mag tube
3 - box or magazine or drum
Then you have to consider reliability around any of the feeding solutions. From everything I read, the Russian Saiga has so much variance in parts that each Saiga is a puzzle to get running. Gunsmithing hours and tinkering per gun can be largely varied. That to me means that even once you get it running, breakage and maintenance may be labor intensive over time to just keep it running. However, the potential from a mag fed shotgun in open is too appealing not to keep pursuing. Moreover, these R&R guns seem to be increadibly pricey.
R&R targets... http://randrtargets....saiga-shotguns/
Saiga: $3,400
JT Engineering http://www.jtenginee...g/services.html
Saiga: $cost of gun + $350+ other options
Xrail seems to be pretty reliable from what I've seen, but it's pretty new, vary proprietary, and very pricey. If that fails, switching it out to an extended tube doesn't seem quick and field viable.
JV Industries... http://www.jvindustr...t/shotguns.html
Xrail tricked shotty: $ ????
Extended mag tubes on traditional Benelli M2 definitely works and is proven. Changing the extended tube out is doable in the field if needed. Reliability is pretty high too. However, I have no familiarity with the stick speed loads, and if investing so much in modifications to the Benelli to get it 'open ready' one does wonder if there is a I'm guessing Accurate Iron & C-rums (red neck tactical too?) are the places to go to get the Benelli up and running, but really, the Benelli seems to fit better in the Tac Iron / Limited division from what I'm seeing.
That has taken me to this. The Firebird Precision mag fed gun which promises higher reliability and lower cost than the R&R Saiga. Based on the Adkal, their MKA 1919 looks promising. Again, very new to the game it seems. However, testimony and video I've found look very good. If I could get in touch with Firebird, I'd like to talk more with them to see if this is the right solution for me. The cost is about as good as I could hope for if it ruly is race ready for that price... I've called them a few times, and just get a 'voicemail box is full' message. I've also emailed with no response. That is not a good sign either...
Firebird Precision... http://www.firebirdp...id=30&Itemid=39
Adkal MKA 1919: $1,980
So, what are the thoughts of those here? Are there any Open 3-gun veterens here that have already figured this decision process out?
Thank you,
(PS: had to break up the video links into multiple posts due to rules. Otherwise, would have put it inline in one post...)
Rob
I'm trying to do my homework and get an education on Open division shotguns so I can figure out where I want to put my $. I've skimmed through the 4 pages of shotgun here and read the entries that seemed on point for open. My aim is to shoot midwest matches. I don't plan on traveling coast to coast anytime soon for shooting. If I can drive there, I'll consider it. I'm far from independently wealthy, but love open, so I realize that puts me in a precarious position, but nonetheless, it's fascinating to me and I'm not looking back. Point is, cost is important to me. I can't afford a duplicate of each gun in 3-gun... I don't even have a backup open gun, just some spare parts of things that may go bad in the field... so reliability is also important to me. I need to be able to maintain what I buy, but I need it to run while maintaining as much of a competitive edge as I can.
I'm pretty green when it comes to the shotgun. I've shot FN SLP Mk 1 (stock, last night), Benelli M2 (stock few months ago at fellow shooter's home), Open Saiga (in my one and only shotgun competition, set up for open, but several feeding problems - see vid from Gateway 3-gun Practical Shotgun match last weekend), and a few other winchester / remington stock pumps and semi-auto field guns over the years on hunting trips. That's it... that's my shotgun experience. However, I tend to learn reasonably quick. Example, I've only been shooting competition since late 2010.
My current perspective is that open division shotgun choice in large part is based on feeding system. That then tends to drive the gun model of choice and quest for reliability. Not sure if that's a fair assessment or not...
Feeding systems, from what I can gather, seem to boil down to:
1 - Some kind of stick / speed loader feeding a traditional semi-auto with large extended capacity mag tube
2 - Xrail or the equivilent proprietary solution replacing the traditional or extended mag tube
3 - box or magazine or drum
Then you have to consider reliability around any of the feeding solutions. From everything I read, the Russian Saiga has so much variance in parts that each Saiga is a puzzle to get running. Gunsmithing hours and tinkering per gun can be largely varied. That to me means that even once you get it running, breakage and maintenance may be labor intensive over time to just keep it running. However, the potential from a mag fed shotgun in open is too appealing not to keep pursuing. Moreover, these R&R guns seem to be increadibly pricey.
R&R targets... http://randrtargets....saiga-shotguns/
Saiga: $3,400
JT Engineering http://www.jtenginee...g/services.html
Saiga: $cost of gun + $350+ other options
Xrail seems to be pretty reliable from what I've seen, but it's pretty new, vary proprietary, and very pricey. If that fails, switching it out to an extended tube doesn't seem quick and field viable.
JV Industries... http://www.jvindustr...t/shotguns.html
Xrail tricked shotty: $ ????
Extended mag tubes on traditional Benelli M2 definitely works and is proven. Changing the extended tube out is doable in the field if needed. Reliability is pretty high too. However, I have no familiarity with the stick speed loads, and if investing so much in modifications to the Benelli to get it 'open ready' one does wonder if there is a I'm guessing Accurate Iron & C-rums (red neck tactical too?) are the places to go to get the Benelli up and running, but really, the Benelli seems to fit better in the Tac Iron / Limited division from what I'm seeing.
That has taken me to this. The Firebird Precision mag fed gun which promises higher reliability and lower cost than the R&R Saiga. Based on the Adkal, their MKA 1919 looks promising. Again, very new to the game it seems. However, testimony and video I've found look very good. If I could get in touch with Firebird, I'd like to talk more with them to see if this is the right solution for me. The cost is about as good as I could hope for if it ruly is race ready for that price... I've called them a few times, and just get a 'voicemail box is full' message. I've also emailed with no response. That is not a good sign either...
Firebird Precision... http://www.firebirdp...id=30&Itemid=39
Adkal MKA 1919: $1,980
So, what are the thoughts of those here? Are there any Open 3-gun veterens here that have already figured this decision process out?
Thank you,
(PS: had to break up the video links into multiple posts due to rules. Otherwise, would have put it inline in one post...)
Rob
