Oklahoma Voters could decide fate of "Open Carry" gun law
- Thread starter KillShot
- Start date
DutchWrangler
Well-Known Fanatic
So be it. At least I know where you stand. Definitely on the side I'm against.
jtischauser
I'm addicted to kicking ass
Why would you say that? I am anything but anti gun. I just never bought a gun for the purpose of needing it to rise up against our government or scare them for that matter. Why would that make you and I against each other?
Personally I buy guns for sport. I would not judge you if your safe was filled with enough guns and ammo to take over New York City.
Its our individual right to own them for whatever purpose we see fit.
Burk Cornelius
Regular guy
This is a weird thread but it shows why we live in a great country, everyone doesn't have to have the exact same view.
Although some may think I am an idealist, I actually am a little bit of a realist and I know that we will always have to make some concessions when it come to our second amendment right to bear arms. That is just the way it is. But if we keep up the good fight and show the rest of the country that gun owners aren't a bunch of redneck extremists, eventually we will win but we have to be patient and diligent. If we ever get complacent, that is when we are in trouble.
WOW, I just sounded like my dad!
BC
PS: I imagine this exact same conversation happens somewhere on a newspaperwritersdiscussionforum.org only they are talking about the 1st Amendment
Although some may think I am an idealist, I actually am a little bit of a realist and I know that we will always have to make some concessions when it come to our second amendment right to bear arms. That is just the way it is. But if we keep up the good fight and show the rest of the country that gun owners aren't a bunch of redneck extremists, eventually we will win but we have to be patient and diligent. If we ever get complacent, that is when we are in trouble.
WOW, I just sounded like my dad!
BC
PS: I imagine this exact same conversation happens somewhere on a newspaperwritersdiscussionforum.org only they are talking about the 1st Amendment
If it's open to everyone anytime without a simple firearms safety class, then how many negligent discharges (there is no such thing as an accidental discharge) would there have to be before the lawmakers say enough, and start the whole "citizens aren't safe so no guns at all" speech. You never hear about the millions of days that go by with everyone carring a firearm and nothing happens. The media only shows the negligent discharges or shootings.
DutchWrangler
Well-Known Fanatic
I know you are pro-gun. But your statements do not lead to me to conclude you are in the same camp as those of us who view the bearing of arms as a natural right for self-preservation, be it from criminals preying on people or government attempting to prey on people. Lest anyone think that our government won't attempt to prey on people, it's just a matter of time. Every move by the government is made in an attempt to get around the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Nothing they do is done in accord or in the spirit of those three documents. The state of government of Oklahoma is of the same mind set. The government we have is the government we have. I accept it. I have no desire to overthrow it by force. I prefer the peaceful means of the VOTE to change it back to what it was intended as originally fought for and written out within the Declaration of Independence. And then reiterated in the penning of the Articles of Confederation.
Our first constitution, the Articles of Confederation, were the product of the radical mentality of those who sought self governance from the central government of the British monarchy. Thomas Paine, Sam Adams, Thomas Jefferson and Dr. Thomas Burke. The Articles made sure that the states were sovereign entities and that the central government was inconsequential. After eight years the conservatives of the time, George Washington, Alexander Hamiliton, Franklin, Madison; yearned for a central government harkening to those days when the colonies were secure under a central government. Thus the conservatives eventually managed to gain enough power to abolish the Articles and replace it with the current Constitution which favored a central government to make the final decisions (primarily as it dealt with the western land issue). Had it not been for the Anti-Federalists those natural rights we were endowed with by the Creator would have quickly been eliminated entirely. It has taken 200+ years but the Federalist (nationalists who favor one government above sovereign state governments) have won the battle by circumventing the Bill of Rights.
I'm in the camp of radicals where individual rights trump group security. Where government is established to ensure that individual liberty is protected and advanced. Where the individual people are the militia, providing their own arms for defense of themselves and their individual liberty.
Nationalists (today's conservatives and liberals) favor a strong central government with a strong standing military and where state governments are meaningless. They constantly seek ways around the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. They believe that "security" is preferred above "liberty". They insist on permits and licensing as a means of control. They are elitist.
Most firearms owners don't view things the way I do. Being that we both share an interest in firearms doesn't equate to an equal agreement in political philosophy. So agreeing to disagree is fine.
jtischauser
I'm addicted to kicking ass
Most firearms owners don't view things the way I do. Being that we both share an interest in firearms doesn't equate to an equal agreement in political philosophy. So agreeing to disagree is fine.
No that is more like it. :iagree: Now back to the topic of Open Carry.
Burk Cornelius
Regular guy
I am still torn on how I would vote IF this measure comes before the people. I know I don't look forward to the rhetoric that will be plastered all over the news media if it does come to a vote.
I can already see the "anti" campaign with this picture on billboards everywhere
Of course I am the one on the left......
taymoor
Skilled Lover
I Think that boomershooters should do an educational background check before allowing anybody to practice free speech on this forum. Some of the comments I read on this, or any forum for that matter, are clearly the product of an unqualified person vocalizing his/her thoughts. Perhaps a good resolution would to issue be a license to speak publicly. After all, the first amendment only protects free speech in the rhetorical defense of one's self in one's own home.
This reductio ad absurdium, although ubiquitous in any 2A forum, is the best example of the slippery slope caused by our complacency with Governments trampling of our rights by "allowing" us to practice them. As far as arming ourselves to keep the Government in check, anybody who disagrees with that statement needs to travel to the middle east. I have spent many months in Iran. Not as a soldier, but rather intermingled with the people. Their disarmed state has resulted in a perpetual fear of the IR Iran Government. For that very reason, every hint of a revolution brewing is promptly ended by a few civilian deaths. The morale of the citizenship of Iran is very interesting in that all complaints of the government are kept to a hush out of fear of the government. Having experienced that, I have GREAT appreciation for the way of life we live in America. However, I also see the signs of our rights eroding away at the hands of lawmakers.
It is clear to me what the founding fathers vision of America was. In general, any action I commit that isn't detracting from anybody else's liberties should not be infringed upon by a congress of tyrants. To disallow me to do something in order to prevent a crime is a governmental atrocity that should never have happened, and shouldn't be allowed to be worsened at this point. My hypothesis is that since lawmakers have already gotten rid of our nation's money, now they are working on our rights :unsure: .
This reductio ad absurdium, although ubiquitous in any 2A forum, is the best example of the slippery slope caused by our complacency with Governments trampling of our rights by "allowing" us to practice them. As far as arming ourselves to keep the Government in check, anybody who disagrees with that statement needs to travel to the middle east. I have spent many months in Iran. Not as a soldier, but rather intermingled with the people. Their disarmed state has resulted in a perpetual fear of the IR Iran Government. For that very reason, every hint of a revolution brewing is promptly ended by a few civilian deaths. The morale of the citizenship of Iran is very interesting in that all complaints of the government are kept to a hush out of fear of the government. Having experienced that, I have GREAT appreciation for the way of life we live in America. However, I also see the signs of our rights eroding away at the hands of lawmakers.
It is clear to me what the founding fathers vision of America was. In general, any action I commit that isn't detracting from anybody else's liberties should not be infringed upon by a congress of tyrants. To disallow me to do something in order to prevent a crime is a governmental atrocity that should never have happened, and shouldn't be allowed to be worsened at this point. My hypothesis is that since lawmakers have already gotten rid of our nation's money, now they are working on our rights :unsure: .
DutchWrangler
Well-Known Fanatic
I am still torn on how I would vote IF this measure comes before the people. I know I don't look forward to the rhetoric that will be plastered all over the news media if it does come to a vote.
I can already see the "anti" campaign with this picture on billboards everywhere
Of course I am the one on the left......
43 other states have OC. Oh the carnage and bloodshed! How dare we even consider OC in the Sooner State. Might put an eye our or something.
I recall when Florida went to CC. The media said it would be the wild west. Hasn't happened. Media fail.
taymoor
Skilled Lover
I am still torn on how I would vote IF this measure comes before the people. I know I don't look forward to the rhetoric that will be plastered all over the news media if it does come to a vote.
I can already see the "anti" campaign with this picture on billboards everywhere
Of course I am the one on the left......
That is one of my favorite movies! But one part I disliked is when Earp's gang detracted from Tombstones 2A rights by not allowing guns in the town. Not cool.
jtischauser
I'm addicted to kicking ass
I'm gonna clean out the non open carry banter about government and move it to another thread.
Burk Cornelius
Regular guy
Just don't trample on my 1st amendment rights and remove my Tombstone picture
DutchWrangler
Well-Known Fanatic
Earp was the "LAW". What the LAW says, goes. So check your weapons and enjoy the whores but don't make trouble.
taymoor
Skilled Lover
I think the two topics are inherently linked. Why not allow the thread to continue?
benjamin-benjamin
snickerpuss
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2010
- Messages
- 2,907
man after reading some of these post i was getting post tramatic stress... i was getting horrible flashbacks of OSA
jtischauser
I'm addicted to kicking ass
The thread can continue but the govenment of Iran has nopthing to do with our OK open carry bill.
DutchWrangler
Well-Known Fanatic
IF open carry goes to the people it will be defeated simply because the average Oklahoman is ignorant of history and inclined to listen to media hype that ensures 'safety' by keeping citizens unarmed at the expense of Liberty. It's the same mantra used against campus carry. Instead of using facts to back their argument, the anti-liberty camp uses fear. Fear trumps fact anyday when you're dealing with sheep.
jtischauser
I'm addicted to kicking ass
How many of you have talked to a friend or family member that doesn't care about gun rights and asked them to consider voting for this particular item if it comes to a vote?
