nikatkimber
Well-Known Fanatic
Thanks for that version Burk, the one I had was a .doc and didn't have all the changes highlighted.
Oklahoma Open Carry SB1733
- Thread starter michaelclm
- Start date
jtischauser
I'm addicted to kicking ass
Did you forget where you were?
Burk Cornelius
Regular guy
Another new section added to the Self Defense Act:
A. A person shall be permitted to carry loaded and unloaded shotguns, rifles and pistols, open and not concealed and without a handgun license as authorized by the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, Sections 1 through 25 of this act, pursuant to the following conditions:
6. For lawful self-defense and self-protection or any other legitimate purpose in or on property that is owned, leased, rented, or otherwise legally controlled by the person; or
I initially thought this meant on your farm or land, and I believe it does. However, couldn't this also apply to a business owner without a SDA license (i.e owner of a bar, burger joint, oil change place, etc)?
The trouble I see is the wording "legitimate purpose" and also "legally controlled"
CONDITIONS UNDER WHICH FIREARMS MAY BE CARRIED
A. A person shall be permitted to carry loaded and unloaded shotguns, rifles and pistols, open and not concealed and without a handgun license as authorized by the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act
6. For lawful self-defense and self-protection or any other legitimate purpose in or on property that is owned, leased, rented, or otherwise legally controlled by the person; or
I initially thought this meant on your farm or land, and I believe it does. However, couldn't this also apply to a business owner without a SDA license (i.e owner of a bar, burger joint, oil change place, etc)?
The trouble I see is the wording "legitimate purpose" and also "legally controlled"
poopgiggle
B Class Nobody
My understanding of the law is that business owners were able to carry in their place of business without a permit even before the change, for the same reason that you can carry in your house or apartment.
Iggie
Well-Known Fanatic
I have read it.
Jefpainthorse
Fill in the Blank
a simple reading of that clause would mean that we are doing any thing ILLEGAL whilst packing heat on property rented or leased for our use would be forbiden by statute.
My son the law student says (I've been waiting years to say that by the way) that you are good to go unless your lease or deeds and covenants have some language that forbids guns somehow. From what I understand those can be kinda wobbly under examination.
I think they way they wrote this works... it' puts the folks who want to call you out for exposing a gun in a catch 22 for a change.
My son the law student says (I've been waiting years to say that by the way) that you are good to go unless your lease or deeds and covenants have some language that forbids guns somehow. From what I understand those can be kinda wobbly under examination.
I think they way they wrote this works... it' puts the folks who want to call you out for exposing a gun in a catch 22 for a change.
Jefpainthorse
Fill in the Blank
It's much more funner to speculate... then bombard each other with bombastic stories about what we thought it said.
Facts often ruin the best arguments.
Jefpainthorse
Fill in the Blank
Most leases and real estate contracts will forbid ILLEGAL activity on the leased property or during the life of the mortgage. Get the property impounded and the owner looses use of it... or the bank gets it back because you cannot pay for it while your in the jailhouse or your meth lab burns the place down after the insurance has lapsed.
It's not agains the law to carry a gun on leased property if your the lessor... I can forsee some sticky wickets where Home Owners Associations have languge forbiding carry or storage of firearms. Has any one in Oklahoma challenged any thing like that in the past?
dennishoddy
Moderator
This is the part that pisses me off.
I see the "cowboys" around the Internet, saying they are going to "parade" around the public on Nov 1.
In my opinion, that is asinine.
Continue to march silently is my opinion, and make sure the legislature is headed to a pure constitutional carry bill. The groundwork has been laid with the Reciprocity act.
Jefpainthorse
Fill in the Blank
I am of two minds on this issue in all seriousness. OK is the right place to OC if you feel the need. About 95% of our territory -you won't run into anybody who would see you anyway.
So...that leaves Tulsa OKC Lawton and a subset of mid sized places like Stilwater, Talequah, Ponca etc.
If you do OC... manners and discretion will come into play. I carry in MO Open just about every time I go over there... but I tuck my gun in resturants and other times I feel the need not to draw undo attention.
I will say this... a 1911 in a IWB... wont get noticed enough to draw a stare. In a holster that works... you can only see it if your looking Right at it... the gun vanisishes from the front... and most people notice your face- they dont look as you pass. I do get a little uptiight cued in a line and if I expect that I go to CC before I get there.
In MO they have some issues we wont have. Officers cant demand the CCL ...you don't need it to carry Open over there. So on contact they ask for ID.... guess what.... you dont have to provide that because your not breaking the law. That produced fodder for a whole nuther issue... and the guy in the wife beater who walks his pit bull strapped witha 10inch Blackhawk usually get's the interaction he seeks. I expect a few of those here. I also expect the Peace Officers of Oklahoma to demand my ID and SDA card (whe have always had to notify) figure out who I am... and move along.
The idiots who dont have a SDA card and get hauled off to jail on YOU Tube will get what's coming to them... and after a couple sit in the slammer and pay the fine that will dry up in short order.
Up north ...we really had to look hard to see an open gun outside of hunting season... I expect the same here.
The police wont refuse service on a MWAG call... but I know Dispatchers will get a script that asks "is it holstered? and "what is he doing exactly? and will inform officers of that before they roll up.
I was appaled that some of our politicians think that Barney and Andy run local cop shops and won't cope with this....
For the record... I wont do it often... but I bet my SAA and Mexican loop holster travel under a coat this fall... headed to some rural place. Would I wear that downtown OKC... likely no. But my J frame in a IWB mght if its warm.
We dont get Paid to carry... profesional behavior will make this work. And I have no pity for those who are ignorant of the law- especially the ones who appear to be clueless to current SDA fine points.
So...that leaves Tulsa OKC Lawton and a subset of mid sized places like Stilwater, Talequah, Ponca etc.
If you do OC... manners and discretion will come into play. I carry in MO Open just about every time I go over there... but I tuck my gun in resturants and other times I feel the need not to draw undo attention.
I will say this... a 1911 in a IWB... wont get noticed enough to draw a stare. In a holster that works... you can only see it if your looking Right at it... the gun vanisishes from the front... and most people notice your face- they dont look as you pass. I do get a little uptiight cued in a line and if I expect that I go to CC before I get there.
In MO they have some issues we wont have. Officers cant demand the CCL ...you don't need it to carry Open over there. So on contact they ask for ID.... guess what.... you dont have to provide that because your not breaking the law. That produced fodder for a whole nuther issue... and the guy in the wife beater who walks his pit bull strapped witha 10inch Blackhawk usually get's the interaction he seeks. I expect a few of those here. I also expect the Peace Officers of Oklahoma to demand my ID and SDA card (whe have always had to notify) figure out who I am... and move along.
The idiots who dont have a SDA card and get hauled off to jail on YOU Tube will get what's coming to them... and after a couple sit in the slammer and pay the fine that will dry up in short order.
Up north ...we really had to look hard to see an open gun outside of hunting season... I expect the same here.
The police wont refuse service on a MWAG call... but I know Dispatchers will get a script that asks "is it holstered? and "what is he doing exactly? and will inform officers of that before they roll up.
I was appaled that some of our politicians think that Barney and Andy run local cop shops and won't cope with this....
For the record... I wont do it often... but I bet my SAA and Mexican loop holster travel under a coat this fall... headed to some rural place. Would I wear that downtown OKC... likely no. But my J frame in a IWB mght if its warm.
We dont get Paid to carry... profesional behavior will make this work. And I have no pity for those who are ignorant of the law- especially the ones who appear to be clueless to current SDA fine points.
Jefpainthorse
Fill in the Blank
in front of the Guthrie Courthouse or City Hall would be the last place you would get caught. Unless you made a loud noise and woke Otis up...he'd have to go unlock Barney out of the cell... and that would take awile ...Opie took the keys home by accident and Aunt Bee dropped em in the drain...
Jackary
Well-Known Fanatic
Well Said. I dont know if or when I will ever open carry most likely never in town only when out in the country. I definitely agree that discretion is key.
Adam Striegel
Well-Known Fanatic
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2012
- Messages
- 776
FYI: I'm pretty sure it's illegal to carry a firearm in a "bar" whether you own it or not. I've had a bar owner tell me before that they got in trouble for keeping a piece for self defense because their primary source of income came from the sale of alcohol.
Iggie
Well-Known Fanatic
If you are the owner you can. Just as if it were in your own home. Same with liquor stores. But you can't carry into any place of buisness in which there primary purpose comes from the sell of alcohol.
It also uses "dispense" does that mean that you can carry into liquor stores? Or is selling closed bottles dispensing?
" Section 1272.1
CARRYING FIREARMS WHERE LIQUOR IS CONSUMED
A. It shall be unlawful for any person to carry or possess any weapon designated in Section 1272 of this title in any establishment where low-point beer, as defined by Section 163.2 of Title 37 of the Oklahoma Statutes, or alcoholic beverages, as defined by Section 506 of Title 37 of the Oklahoma Statutes, are consumed. This provision shall not apply to a peace officer, as defined in Section 99 of this title, or to private investigators with a firearms authorization when acting in the scope and course of employment, and shall not apply to an owner or proprietor of the establishment having a pistol, rifle, or shotgun on the premises. Provided however, a person possessing a valid concealed handgun license pursuant to the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, Section 1290.1 et seq. of this title may carry the concealed or unconcealed handgun into any restaurant or other establishment licensed to dispense low-point beer or alcoholic beverages where the sale of low-point beer or alcoholic beverages does not constitute the primary purpose of the business. "
It also uses "dispense" does that mean that you can carry into liquor stores? Or is selling closed bottles dispensing?
" Section 1272.1
CARRYING FIREARMS WHERE LIQUOR IS CONSUMED
A. It shall be unlawful for any person to carry or possess any weapon designated in Section 1272 of this title in any establishment where low-point beer, as defined by Section 163.2 of Title 37 of the Oklahoma Statutes, or alcoholic beverages, as defined by Section 506 of Title 37 of the Oklahoma Statutes, are consumed. This provision shall not apply to a peace officer, as defined in Section 99 of this title, or to private investigators with a firearms authorization when acting in the scope and course of employment, and shall not apply to an owner or proprietor of the establishment having a pistol, rifle, or shotgun on the premises. Provided however, a person possessing a valid concealed handgun license pursuant to the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, Section 1290.1 et seq. of this title may carry the concealed or unconcealed handgun into any restaurant or other establishment licensed to dispense low-point beer or alcoholic beverages where the sale of low-point beer or alcoholic beverages does not constitute the primary purpose of the business. "
Jefpainthorse
Fill in the Blank
Your bar owner is wrong. He may allow employees arms.
Generally if 51% of income comes from beer and booze it's a "bar"
Restaurant with a " bar" mark the bar area with a sign.... I wouldn't sit there strapped....
Package stores are good to carry in... If they pour drinks that's dispensing
Adam... Most of this stuff has been law for 17 years or longer in Title 21
It always makes me laugh how many people sleep in the legal part of the SDA class or never learn the laws that apply to their interests.
Generally if 51% of income comes from beer and booze it's a "bar"
Restaurant with a " bar" mark the bar area with a sign.... I wouldn't sit there strapped....
Package stores are good to carry in... If they pour drinks that's dispensing
Adam... Most of this stuff has been law for 17 years or longer in Title 21
It always makes me laugh how many people sleep in the legal part of the SDA class or never learn the laws that apply to their interests.
Iggie
Well-Known Fanatic
"and shall not apply to an owner or proprietor of the establishment having a pistol, rifle, or shotgun on the premises."
Am I taking that out of context? Doesn't say carry, but its allowed on the premises. Which is what I was saying.
Also what about the liquor stores?
Am I taking that out of context? Doesn't say carry, but its allowed on the premises. Which is what I was saying.
Also what about the liquor stores?
poopgiggle
B Class Nobody
"package store" is another term for liquor store, he already answered you.
Adam Striegel
Well-Known Fanatic
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2012
- Messages
- 776
Guess that's what I get for hanging out listening to a bar tender. lol
The SDA class basically said if you have booze in your possession and had even one drink you better leave your gun at home. He never got into the finer points of bar ownership.
I was just going off of something a bar owner told me probably 8 years ago.
